Steve_

But you can't, that's been illegal since 1969. At least for handguns and to buy a rifle or a shotgun the dealer has to comply with the laws of both States, so that makes it impossible for someone in Massachusetts for example to legally buy one in Vermont or New Hampshire, as Massachusetts has a licensing law they can't comply with.

This was the point I was making in #120. There are lots of gun laws in the US, prohibition of interstate transfers except between licenced dealers being one of them.

We don't have that law in Canada, in fact you can mail-order guns in Canada. Legal age to buy a handgun in Canada is 18, in the US it is 21.

If you look on the ATF website at the trace statistics: https://www.atf.gov/file/2696/download (page 7).

The overwhelming majority of traced guns recovered in California were originally sold in California (bear in mind that doesn't necessarily mean they were used in a crime). They weren't smuggled in.

By any reasonable standard, Alberta has less restrictive gun laws than California yet Alberta has a similar rate of gun ownership and a quarter of the firearm-related homicides per capita.

I just think there is a cultural factor at work. I mean this guy literally sat plotting to kill these two people for two years. He could have run them over or something but instead he bought a gun and shot them. This just seems to be the way Americans think. Gun laws aren't going to change the way people think.

If they did, California would have a lower rate of armed crime than Canada but it doesn't.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Some folks ain't so good with geography.

Chicago literally borders Indiana, which has some of the loosest gun laws in the nation. Baltimore is an hour's drive from Virginia, which also has lax gun laws. No border guards to keep anything out.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Crazy guys with bad attitudes are annoying, but rarely pose a problem.

The gun raises the stakes just a wee bit. It's unlikely that this guy and most of the others like him would have been as lethal had they needed to use some other kind of weapon.

But oddly, the same gun nuts who feel defenseless without their weapons don't seem to grasp that the killers are similarly empowered when armed. Logic isn't a strong suit among that crowd.

FlaviusAetius

Since you're engaging in a debate, it would be more persuasive to your argument to refer to those who don't agree with you as "gun owners" rather than "gun nuts." Most gun owners don't necessarily feel 'defenseless without their weapons,' either, as most aren't threatened by killers in the first place - and wouldn't have their weapons ready to hand if they were. Most gun owners, who have more than one or two weapons, generally keep them locked away in a gun safe.

Most gun owners - just like you - are just as interested in keeping weapons out of the hands of killers, the problem is how to identify killers before they kill. The alternative is to keep weapons out of the hands of everyone, and that simply isn't going to happen. The point is that they are not stupid and that you are brilliant, they simply have a different viewpoint with which you happen not to agree.

RoadWarriorFromLP

I'm not. I'm stating a fact. If you can't figure out that guns make criminals more lethal, then you're just not very bright.

FlaviusAetius

No, you're simply spouting your opinions in an emotional, argumentative and unpersuasive way.

Of course an armed criminal is a more lethal criminal. If you think those who don't agree with you on the idea of somehow getting rid of all civilian gun ownership don't also recognize that fact then you're simply not that bright.

Pulaski

That's what he does, in between working on a spell to make all privately owned guns magically disappear.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Not sure why armies bother to carry guns into combat, when we have the gun nuts believing that trained killers can be equally effective when equipped with only pocketknives and dental floss. Those commanders must be an emotional lot.

Bob

Theory is great.

Reality is in Maine, look at Uncle Henry's, go to someone's house and privately buy the gun, no checks involved. Travel back down on I-95 and flog that legally purchased private sale gun illegally on the black market in MA, job done.

That's the problem with all your theory and blustering.

Hiro11

So we agree that since buying guns as you described is illegal, more gun laws won't solve the problem. Right?

Bob

It's because it's legal in one location but not in another that is the problem.

It shouldn't be hard to see that, surely?

Make it a level playing field, then Joe Blogs up in Maine, won't bother selling it to anyone without at least some sort of check in place so that person can't just puttle a couple hours down the highway :/

FlaviusAetius

Renewed calls for gun control laws spur sales

Happens EVERY time.

scrubbedexpat099

#blacklivesmatter

Jerseygirl

I have moved the last two posts into the dedicated thread re. Oregon shootings here...

http://britishexpats.com/forum/trail.../#post11763182

Please post comments on the above in that thread. Thank you muchly.