'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Aug 28th 2015, 7:52 pm
#106
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Oh but they have. In response the government insists on certain safety features built into all new cars, drivers must undergo training and pass and exam to have a license and the car must have insurance, ...
Aug 28th 2015, 8:23 pm
#107
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
That's a good start, but it will have to deal with the Supreme Court ruling that mentally ill people have the right to wander the streets unsupervised and without taking their meds. Reagan got blamed for closing the asylums, but he was complying with a Supreme Court ruling.
Do we know if this shooter was mentally ill and if so did he ever seek help? If he never sought help and otherwise stayed out of trouble which for the most part he seems to have done, well nobody would know about him to begin with.
You could be friends with or co-workers with someone with a mental illness and have no idea unless they said something.
Aug 28th 2015, 8:29 pm
#108
Cambridge / Philly.
Joined: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
I always find the mental illness argument strange. Of course mental illness plays a part. I would like to think anyone committing a multiple murder has mental illness issues...but having 300,000,000 guns in a country doesn't exactly make the situation easier.
Aug 28th 2015, 8:30 pm
#109
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA USA
Posts: 1,206
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Federal Court just opened up a loophole through the Brady Act - and just when you all wanted them closed:
Court: Second Amendment also covers those in US illegally
Court: Second Amendment also covers those in US illegally
Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Aug 28th 2015 at 8:32 pm.
Aug 28th 2015, 8:32 pm
#110
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,491
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
That said, a lot (pls note: I did not say "most") of people who are "on the streets" have mental health issues that are not being treated, and are living in dangerous circumstances. These people should have a place to go, because many of them cannot look after themselves, and that they and their predecessors, were turfed out of the asylums because they could not be detained is a travesty of common sense and human decency.
Aug 28th 2015, 8:55 pm
#111
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
A survey done in Wales and England of those convicted of murder a total of 1,594 persons, 34% had a mental disorder, most had not attended psychiatric services, 5% had schizophrenia (lifetime), 10% had symptoms of mental illness at the time of offense.
Conclusion was there was a link between murder and schizophrenia. But most of the perpetrators were not acutely ill or under healthcare at the time of the crime.
Rates of mental disorder in people convicted of homicide. National clinical survey. - PubMed - NCBI
In the US they need to work on the inner city's and prevent kids/teens from every joining gangs, break the cycle, decrease gang membership and killings will go down. Gang killings just are not high profile and well most never make national news, and that is where the actual problem is in the US.
Canada is not much better when it comes to locking mentally ill up in hospital, accessing out patient care is easier, but we don't lock the mentally ill up in mass, and people own guns here, and yet we have less murders, far less.
We have gangs too.
The US needs to work on the societal problems creating angry violent people, until that is done, no amount of gun control laws will fix anything short of banning guns and collecting all 300 million+ firearms which we all know is not possible.
What makes American's more violent then their northern neighbors?
Conclusion was there was a link between murder and schizophrenia. But most of the perpetrators were not acutely ill or under healthcare at the time of the crime.
Rates of mental disorder in people convicted of homicide. National clinical survey. - PubMed - NCBI
In the US they need to work on the inner city's and prevent kids/teens from every joining gangs, break the cycle, decrease gang membership and killings will go down. Gang killings just are not high profile and well most never make national news, and that is where the actual problem is in the US.
Canada is not much better when it comes to locking mentally ill up in hospital, accessing out patient care is easier, but we don't lock the mentally ill up in mass, and people own guns here, and yet we have less murders, far less.
We have gangs too.
The US needs to work on the societal problems creating angry violent people, until that is done, no amount of gun control laws will fix anything short of banning guns and collecting all 300 million+ firearms which we all know is not possible.
What makes American's more violent then their northern neighbors?
Aug 28th 2015, 9:00 pm
#112
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Oh, I agree absolutely, and didn't mean to suggest that tens of thousands of people be rounded up and put back in Victorian style asylums against their will.
That said, a lot (pls note: I did not say "most") of people who are "on the streets" have mental health issues that are not being treated, and are living in dangerous circumstances. These people should have a place to go, because many of them cannot look after themselves, and that they and their predecessors, were turfed out of the asylums because they could not be detained is a travesty of common sense and human decency.
That said, a lot (pls note: I did not say "most") of people who are "on the streets" have mental health issues that are not being treated, and are living in dangerous circumstances. These people should have a place to go, because many of them cannot look after themselves, and that they and their predecessors, were turfed out of the asylums because they could not be detained is a travesty of common sense and human decency.
I agree those on the streets with limited help, no family, unable to work etc should be kept safe in a setting that is safe for them and not on the streets.
We have the ability to build modern places to house these folks that would be nothing like the institutions of the past.
I am fairly liberal, but I have no idea how anyone can consider people with mental illness being on the streets, no housing, no food, no showers, etc is somehow better.
Aug 28th 2015, 9:02 pm
#113
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA USA
Posts: 1,206
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
The US needs to work on the societal problems creating angry violent people, until that is done, no amount of gun control laws will fix anything short of banning guns and collecting all 300 million+ firearms which we all know is not possible.
What makes American's more violent then their northern neighbors?
Aug 28th 2015, 9:08 pm
#114
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Rural Virginia
Posts: 1,077
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
It is rather frustrating to see posters who appear not to have a clue regarding the fact that we DO have gun control laws in the US. As a result, they are constantly fulminating rubbish all over this OP. A person must pass muster on both the federal and state level and go through the waiting period before he gets the handgun.
For openers, federal law provides us the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, along with several others that don't apply to purchase of a handgun:
The Brady Act requires that anyone seeking to purchase a handgun must purchase it through a federally licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer upon approval by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) maintained by the FBI. In addition, the law prohibits the following classes of persons from LEGALLY obtaining a handgun: (1) Anyone convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a tem exceeding one year (NOTE: person may serve less than a year and still be subject here, the operative word is “convicted;” (2) a fugitive from justice; (3) one addicted to any controlled substance; (4) a mental defective or committed to a mental institution; (5) an alien illegally or unlawfully in the US; (6) someone discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) subject to a court order restraining a person from harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner; (8) convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
As to Virginia, where the gun was bought and the crime committed:
As in other states, Virginia gun control laws prohibit the ownership of sawed-off shotguns, machine guns, and silencers. Virginia’s gun control laws also restrict who is permitted to own guns. For example, individuals convicted of a felony or who are subject to a protective order (restraining order), may not own or purchase guns. In addition, in order to purchase a rifle or shotgun from a licensed gun dealer, an individual must be at least 18 years of age -- and at least 21 years of age to purchase a handgun. Note that state police have one day in which to conduct a criminal record check on a prospective gun buyer. - See more at: Virginia Gun Control Laws - FindLaw
So could we please stop this total crap about there being no control over obtaining handguns in the US? As to theft from legitimate owners, or transfer of illegally-held guns within the criminal class, the cat’s out of the bag, and there can only be confiscation and prosecution where the perpetrators are caught.
For openers, federal law provides us the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, along with several others that don't apply to purchase of a handgun:
The Brady Act requires that anyone seeking to purchase a handgun must purchase it through a federally licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer upon approval by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) maintained by the FBI. In addition, the law prohibits the following classes of persons from LEGALLY obtaining a handgun: (1) Anyone convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a tem exceeding one year (NOTE: person may serve less than a year and still be subject here, the operative word is “convicted;” (2) a fugitive from justice; (3) one addicted to any controlled substance; (4) a mental defective or committed to a mental institution; (5) an alien illegally or unlawfully in the US; (6) someone discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) subject to a court order restraining a person from harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner; (8) convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
As to Virginia, where the gun was bought and the crime committed:
As in other states, Virginia gun control laws prohibit the ownership of sawed-off shotguns, machine guns, and silencers. Virginia’s gun control laws also restrict who is permitted to own guns. For example, individuals convicted of a felony or who are subject to a protective order (restraining order), may not own or purchase guns. In addition, in order to purchase a rifle or shotgun from a licensed gun dealer, an individual must be at least 18 years of age -- and at least 21 years of age to purchase a handgun. Note that state police have one day in which to conduct a criminal record check on a prospective gun buyer. - See more at: Virginia Gun Control Laws - FindLaw
So could we please stop this total crap about there being no control over obtaining handguns in the US? As to theft from legitimate owners, or transfer of illegally-held guns within the criminal class, the cat’s out of the bag, and there can only be confiscation and prosecution where the perpetrators are caught.
Private party handgun sales are legal there are plenty for sale in the local small as newspapers.
Aug 28th 2015, 9:09 pm
#115
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA USA
Posts: 1,206
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Canada is much more homogeneous (aside from the Asians who have moved into BC) and composed mostly of the descendants of white Europeans. America is not, and Canada doesn't have a history of the enslavement of a very large group of non-Europeans.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
Aug 28th 2015, 10:49 pm
#116
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Canada is much more homogeneous (aside from the Asians who have moved into BC) and composed mostly of the descendants of white Europeans. America is not, and Canada doesn't have a history of the enslavement of a very large group of non-Europeans.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
Aug 28th 2015, 11:07 pm
#117
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 88
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Canada is much more homogeneous (aside from the Asians who have moved into BC) and composed mostly of the descendants of white Europeans. America is not, and Canada doesn't have a history of the enslavement of a very large group of non-Europeans.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
BC= 1.6
AB= 2.2
SK= 2.7
WA= 2.2
MT= 2.1
ND= 1.7
Pretty much identical.
Aug 28th 2015, 11:18 pm
#118
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
The lady who survived the shooting played dead after being shot and stayed that way until police arrived, doing so probably saved her life.
17 shots were fired in total.
The perceived racist comment the shooter had accused the reporter of when she was an intern on an assignment with the shooter when he was a reporter was that her friend lived on "Cotton Hill Road." Somehow he found that to be a racist remark.
He apparently accused people while working there often of being racist and most of his co-workers were uncomfortable around him.
Virginia shootings: Survivor recounts on-air TV shooting from hospital bed - World - CBC News
17 shots were fired in total.
The perceived racist comment the shooter had accused the reporter of when she was an intern on an assignment with the shooter when he was a reporter was that her friend lived on "Cotton Hill Road." Somehow he found that to be a racist remark.
He apparently accused people while working there often of being racist and most of his co-workers were uncomfortable around him.
Virginia shootings: Survivor recounts on-air TV shooting from hospital bed - World - CBC News
Aug 28th 2015, 11:33 pm
#120
Grumpy Know-it-all
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: 'Merica - now they're gunning down reporters
Canada is much more homogeneous (aside from the Asians who have moved into BC) and composed mostly of the descendants of white Europeans. America is not, and Canada doesn't have a history of the enslavement of a very large group of non-Europeans.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
But always remember, "Diversity is Strength." E pluribus, pluribus.
More than 200 ethnic origins were reported in the 2011 National Household Survey (NHS). In 2011, 13 different ethnic origins had surpassed the 1-million mark.
Also has a higher per capita rate of immigration than the US, more than twice the number.
I'm not sure I buy the argument that these things happen less often in Canada, clearly they do, but Canada has a smaller population. Look at that fruitcake in Moncton recently who shot all those RCMP officers.
America has a larger population and more active media so it gets more headlines.
The one thing I always come back to is that the firearm-related homicide rate in California is about 3/100,000 and in Alberta it is 0.7/100,000 but by any reasonable metric Alberta has less restrictive gun laws than California. Most of the population in both jurisdictions is urban.
I think there are several factors - culture - I don't think TV shows cause people to run out and commit murder but clearly culture is reflected in TV shows and every other TV show in the US seems to be a cop show.
Poverty - Canada doesn't have huge areas of poverty like the US does and where it comes close (some of the shitty suburbs of Vancouver and Toronto) they have pretty high crime rates.
Healthcare and social services - clearly very lacking in the US compared to Canada, especially if you're poor. The one example to me is Jared Loughner (who shot Gabby Giffords). He was known as being very mentally unstable, his parents knew he was but they were poor. He was thrown out of college for acting bizarrely. His reasoning for the shooting was that they were involved in a conspiracy against the English language.
He's so ill, it took them a year to get him to a point where he could make a plea in court and then they arm twisted him into pleading guilty by threatening him with State charges if he didn't (in Arizona, even if you're not guilty by reason of insanity, that gets you a life sentence in prison).
That kind of thing just wouldn't happen in Canada. His parents would have taken him to hospital, he would have gotten a lot more help.
Anyway as far as this nutcase in Virginia, he apparently lived near the station for two years after he was fired, plotting revenge. I find it hard to believe that anyone who plotted killing two people for two years would have been prevented from doing so by a gun law. Even with licensing and registration, etc. he could have legally obtained a gun.