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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Aug 20th 2020, 3:55 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by civilservant
Wife wants an Accord as her next car later in the year (currently drives a Fusion) but my FIL insists that we shouldn't buy a Honda because they have timing chains.

My research implies that they stopped using chains and went to belts in 2016. Can anyone with one confirm?
I posted a detailed analysis of this, possibly in this thread, a few years ago. SOME honda models use chains, some belts. I remember listing it all. I'll see if I can find it ...

But as the other poster said, all it means is, you need to schedule a replacement at, say, 100,000 miles. As long as you anticipate it, it's not THAT big a deal - just a job that costs money. Honda builds phenomenal engines. I've had several and never an issue.

Here it is: Let's talk about cars

I got curious about this and did some reading, having owned hondas for decades. Looks like they've started to use chains on some engines. 2003 onwards CRVs are chain, not belt. I don't see 'Pilot' in the list, unfortunately. (ETA - looks like pilot has belt, not chain).

Honda Timing Belt and Timing Chain List - Your Car Angel - Your Car Angel
2008 to 2014 Accord V6 3.5 – Belt
2008 to 2014 Odyssey pilot and Ridgeline V6 3.5 -Belt
2006 to 2007 Accord V6 3.0 – Belt
2006 to 2016 Civic – Chain
2005 Accord 3.0 – Belt
2003 to 2011 Element – Chain
2003 to 2016 CR-V – Chain
2003 to 2004 Accord 3.0 – Belt
2003 to 2016 Accord – 2.4 – Chain
2003 to 2004 Odyssey and Pilot V6 3.5 – Belt
2002 Civic 1.7 – Belt
2002 Accord 2.3 – Belt
2002 Accord 3.0 – Belt
2002 Passport 3.2 – Belt
2002 Odyssey 3.5 – Belt
2001 Civic 1.7 – Belt
2001 CRV 2.0 – Belt
2001 Prelude 2.2 – Belt
2001 2.3 Accord – Belt
2001 Passport 3.2 – Belt
2001 Odyssey 3.5 – Belt
1999 to 2000 Civic 1.6 – Belt
1999 to 2000 CRV 2.0 – Belt
1999 to 2000 Prelude 2.2 – Belt
1999 to 2000 Accord 2.3 – Belt
1999 to 2000 Passport 3.2 – Belt
1999 to 2000 Odyssey 3.5 – belt
1998 Civic 1.6 – Belt
1998 CRV 2.0 – Belt
1998 Prelude 2.2 – Belt
1998 Odyssey and accord 2.3 – Belt
1998 Accord 3.0 – Belt
1998 Passport 3.2 – Belt
1997 Civic 1.6 – Belt
1997 Del sol 1.6 – Belt
1997 CRV 2.0- Belt
1997 Accord 2.2 – Belt
1997 Odyssey 2.2 – Belt
1997 Prelude 2.2 – Belt
1997 Accord 2.7 – Belt
1997 passport 3.2 – Belt
1996 Civic 1.6 – Belt
1996 Del sol 1.6 – Belt
1996 Accord 2.2 – Belt
1996 Odyssey 2.2 – Belt
1996 Prelude 2.2 – Belt
1996 Prelude 2.3 – Belt
1996 passport 2.6 – Belt
1996 Accord 2.7 – Belt
1996 Passport 3.2 – Belt

Last edited by Steerpike; Aug 20th 2020 at 3:57 am.
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Old Aug 20th 2020, 3:58 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

I was driving one yesterday, a chain version, good for the life of the engine. JiffyLube recommended changing the belt.

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Old Aug 20th 2020, 4:00 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Thanks for that Steerpike - I still haven't managed to get a straight answer from anyone at the local Honda dealership though on a 2020 Accord. It's like no one knows, which is.... odd.
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Old Aug 20th 2020, 8:00 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by civilservant
Thanks for that Steerpike - I still haven't managed to get a straight answer from anyone at the local Honda dealership though on a 2020 Accord. It's like no one knows, which is.... odd.
2019's use a belt (found this by looking for the part number although it sadly didn't show a 2020), I'd make an assumption that unless there were any major revisions then it's probably still a belt, frustrating you can't get a clear cut answer from Honda themselves though.
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Old Aug 20th 2020, 8:05 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by civilservant
Thanks for that Steerpike - I still haven't managed to get a straight answer from anyone at the local Honda dealership though on a 2020 Accord. It's like no one knows, which is.... odd.
I think the last time this was a discussion topic the person was determined to do ALL their own maintenance, and they felt that having to replace a belt at (whatever it is - 80k? 100k?) was a drawback. But if you don't mind letting a mechanic do some of the major tasks, this is one such item and you just budget for it. As I recall, belts are quieter and smoother than chains (makes sense but - whether you can notice this or not is another question!).

ETA - it's not going to be just the model (accord) and year (2020); it's going to depend on engine type. Historically, Accords have come in 4-cylinder and V6 configurations. Two totally different engines, possibly different 'belt/chain' aspects.
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Old Aug 20th 2020, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Boiler
I was driving one yesterday, a chain version, good for the life of the engine. JiffyLube recommended changing the belt.
I'm a chain fan too. I've replaced the belt on an older 3L V6 Accord, wasn't too tricky but if it were a chain I wouldn't likely have had to do it for another 100k miles.
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Old Aug 20th 2020, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

So other than routine maintenance they really aren't a big deal?

My FIL acted like it was the end of the world to have a chain rather than a belt.

I must admit to being totally oblivious when it comes to cars. Give me a computer and I'll tear it apart and put it back together again for you, but a car? Not so much.
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Old Aug 21st 2020, 12:38 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by civilservant
So other than routine maintenance they really aren't a big deal?

My FIL acted like it was the end of the world to have a chain rather than a belt.

I must admit to being totally oblivious when it comes to cars. Give me a computer and I'll tear it apart and put it back together again for you, but a car? Not so much.
No, no big deal. Maybe 20+ years ago.
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Old Aug 21st 2020, 4:51 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by civilservant
Wife wants an Accord as her next car later in the year (currently drives a Fusion) but my FIL insists that we shouldn't buy a Honda because they have timing chains.

My research implies that they stopped using chains and went to belts in 2016. Can anyone with one confirm?
You need to research the engine, not the car, as Honda flips back and forth - so 2003 was a switch year - our 2003 Accord has an egine with a chain, but at the start of the (model) year the same model had an engine with a belt.

FWIW I would take a chain over a belt every time - a chain is (AFAIK) usually good for the life of the engine, whereas I think I have heard of belts being changed at as little as 60,000 miles.
Originally Posted by BenK91
2019's use a belt (found this by looking for the part number although it sadly didn't show a 2020), ....
Right, because engines come and go, and aren't model-year-specific.
Originally Posted by Boiler
I was driving one yesterday, a chain version, good for the life of the engine. JiffyLube recommended changing the belt.
A call from the service deparment of our local Honda or Ford dealer recommending a transmission flush/ fluid change is a fairly common occurance shortly after we drop off a vehicle for service.

Last edited by Pulaski; Aug 21st 2020 at 5:02 am.
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Old Aug 21st 2020, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Pulaski
A call from the service deparment of our local Honda or Ford dealer recommending a transmission flush/ fluid change is a fairly common occurance shortly after we drop off a vehicle for service.
I'm getting a little twitchy as my Tundra's 150k transmission flush is coming up - which wouldn't be so bad but I know it didn't get it's 90k flush.... or it's 120k flush... and I haven't got the foggiest if it had it's 30k and 60k flushes....
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Old Aug 23rd 2020, 7:13 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
...

Another thing I like about the hybrid CR-V is paddle shifters to increase regenerative braking. Very cool in that it not only saves your brakes as per downshifting but also increases fuel efficiency especially descending from somewhere like the Sierra Nevada, for example.
Can you (or anyone!) explain how regenerative braking works? I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and I understand the fundamentals of motors and generation. As I understand it, any electric motor is also a generator when driven in reverse. So when you roll down a hill (or coast), gravity (or momentum) is powering the vehicle, and the rotating wheels are naturally generating electricity to charge the battery. So when you need to 'brake' (slow down more rapidly), how does that translate to 'more electricity' being generated? And if you brake 'harder', how do you increase the generation component? In other words, what's happening when you 'brake' vs when you roll down hill?
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Old Aug 23rd 2020, 11:24 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
At one point, my retirement was down by 'significant' 6 figures so a new car would be a celebration of recovery! But I'm going to wait to see what happens first ...
Down 6 figures, ouch that would hurt. I have been lucky and so far income/assets have increased since March.
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Old Aug 23rd 2020, 12:57 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by mrken30
Down 6 figures, ouch that would hurt. I have been lucky and so far income/assets have increased since March.
So far, it has recovered back to where it was; ever so slightly higher, in fact! So currently I'm cautiously optimistic but my good friend who understands 'the market' tells me, there is absolutely no foundation for what is currently happening and he said we could be in for another big drop ... we shall see!
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Old Aug 23rd 2020, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by zzrmark
I'm a chain fan too. I've replaced the belt on an older 3L V6 Accord, wasn't too tricky but if it were a chain I wouldn't likely have had to do it for another 100k miles.
I had a 1998 3.0L V6 and gave it to my grandson when I bought my current 2014 Accord Sport. Never changed the timing belt and nor did he until the thing gave out due to lack of care or maintenance. probably had an excess of 160,000 miles
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Old Aug 23rd 2020, 4:04 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Can you (or anyone!) explain how regenerative braking works? I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and I understand the fundamentals of motors and generation. As I understand it, any electric motor is also a generator when driven in reverse. So when you roll down a hill (or coast), gravity (or momentum) is powering the vehicle, and the rotating wheels are naturally generating electricity to charge the battery. So when you need to 'brake' (slow down more rapidly), how does that translate to 'more electricity' being generated? And if you brake 'harder', how do you increase the generation component? In other words, what's happening when you 'brake' vs when you roll down hill?
"Braking" puts the electric motor into reverse. The more you brake - either through the brake pedal or paddle shifters - the faster electric motor goes in reverse, the more the vehicle slows, and meaning the turbine (or whatever it's called on an electric vehicle) spins faster thus generating more electricity.

Here's a reasonable description:

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-...ve-braking.htm


This is why hybrids have higher fuel economy in the city rather than the highway - the relatively frequent braking that is happening charges the battery making it available for subsequent acceleration. When you're on the highway you are typically braking less, so there is less opportunity per mile for regenerative braking. Another side effect should be that braking components - including brake pads - last longer. Regenerative braking doesn't remove the need for "regular" brakes - apparently it's not as effective as speed reduces towards zero - but it should reduce their use. I get approx 50k on my front brake pads on my BMW - will be interesting to see how long the Honda pads last for.
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