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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Aug 27th 2020, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

They all look good, what is your time line to get her finished?
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Old Aug 27th 2020, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Boiler
They all look good, what is your time line to get her finished?
I am hoping for early next summer. A lot depends on how hard it will be to fit the fiberglass body. I switched the steering from right to left side and hope that doesn’t induce any problems. Someone on line gave me a CJ5 steering box which I made a bracket to install.
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Old Aug 27th 2020, 4:59 pm
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Originally Posted by ddsrph
Something went wrong with my picture posting. Some unintended photos made it to post.
You have a fairly long window to correct any post ... at least, if you use a computer (maybe different on a phone?)
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Old Aug 27th 2020, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
You have a fairly long window to correct any post ... at least, if you use a computer (maybe different on a phone?)
I did fix some with the edit function. When first posted it had three other totally unrelated photos.
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Old Aug 30th 2020, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
I have both one of those diagrams that shows whether power (from the gas engine) or current is flowing and in what direction, plus a dynamic bar chart that shows the amount of power being consumed or electricity regenerated. If I take my foot off the throttle, even on a level surface, I see some regeneration. If I do the same thing going downhill I see more regeneration; if I apply brakes or paddle shifters I see a lot more regeneration in both cases. I presume that the paddle shifters invoke the same regeneration process as the brake pedal does, but without applying the friction brakes at all.
OK, I paid a lot of attention while driving the Prius, and found a different screen that showed more useful info. Also did a lot more thinking and reading about the topic.

First of all, I was quite wrong; when I take my foot off the 'accelerator pedal', going down a hill ('coasting'), I see only a small amount of regeneration - same as you. As I apply the brake pedal, gently, the regeneration increases proportional to pressure on the brake. So that all makes sense now. Reading about Teslas, they have a setting you can change that affects the 'no pedal' behavior. For new owners, coming from gas cars, they recommend the setting that makes 'foot off the accelerator' do little regen ('coasting'). But once you get used to it, they suggest you change to a setting where 'foot off the accelerator' does significant regen - and thus, foot-off-the-accelerator means 'braking'. In this mode, if you want to 'coast', you actually keep your foot on the pedal, gently. This mode is also referred to as 'one pedal driving' - you are accelerating and braking just with the one pedal. From a 'drive feel' perspective, this would be like being in a manual transmission car, and leaving the car in a low gear; as soon as you take your foot off the gas, the engine acts as a brake.

So in the 'Prius' setup, foot-off-the-accelerator means little regeneration. In this situation, the electrical energy from the spinning motor is just wasted - the spinning motor develops voltage, but no current is allowed to flow so no regeneration / braking occurs. As you apply the brakes, the electrical energy from the spinning motor is applied to the charging circuit, and thus provides a load on the motor, and thus, braking.
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Old Aug 30th 2020, 6:47 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
So in the 'Prius' setup, foot-off-the-accelerator means little regeneration. In this situation, the electrical energy from the spinning motor is just wasted - the spinning motor develops voltage, but no current is allowed to flow so no regeneration / braking occurs
So this is one difference from the CRV. The little diagram of energy/charge flow definitely shows charge flowing to the battery in this situation.
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Old Aug 30th 2020, 7:49 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
So this is one difference from the CRV. The little diagram of energy/charge flow definitely shows charge flowing to the battery in this situation.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough; in the 'foot off accelerator' situation, there is a small amount of charge, just not a lot. As soon as I apply the brake pedal, it goes up, and if I apply more pressure to the pedal, it goes to the max level. So probably identical to the CRV.

But what I forgot to mention, and what still remains as the unanswered question is, just how do they vary the regeneration 'level' from light pressure to heavy pressure on the brake pedal (or with your 'paddles'). I'm guessing it's all done through a controller circuit, that diverts more or less of the available current to the charging circuit.

I did read an interesting article along the way to my better understanding ... if you were to drive a Tesla (fully electric) car to the top of a high mountain, then fully charge the battery, you'd actually run the risk of burning out the friction brakes when going down the hill, because - with a full battery - you don't have the regenerative braking option available to you, and you have to use friction brakes 100%! Chances are, no one is going to fully charge a car at the top of a mountain, but - interesting concept! Apparently the Tesla warns you when your battery is full that regen braking isn't going to be effective until the battery level falls.

Did you compare Honda's hybrid technology to Toyota's, when making your decision? Toyota obviously led the market but have Honda caught up at this point?
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Old Aug 30th 2020, 9:54 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Maybe I wasn't clear enough; in the 'foot off accelerator' situation, there is a small amount of charge, just not a lot. As soon as I apply the brake pedal, it goes up, and if I apply more pressure to the pedal, it goes to the max level. So probably identical to the CRV.

But what I forgot to mention, and what still remains as the unanswered question is, just how do they vary the regeneration 'level' from light pressure to heavy pressure on the brake pedal (or with your 'paddles'). I'm guessing it's all done through a controller circuit, that diverts more or less of the available current to the charging circuit.

I did read an interesting article along the way to my better understanding ... if you were to drive a Tesla (fully electric) car to the top of a high mountain, then fully charge the battery, you'd actually run the risk of burning out the friction brakes when going down the hill, because - with a full battery - you don't have the regenerative braking option available to you, and you have to use friction brakes 100%! Chances are, no one is going to fully charge a car at the top of a mountain, but - interesting concept! Apparently the Tesla warns you when your battery is full that regen braking isn't going to be effective until the battery level falls.

Did you compare Honda's hybrid technology to Toyota's, when making your decision? Toyota obviously led the market but have Honda caught up at this point?
Here's a video explaining the Honda system. At 10:59 there's an explanation of how it relates to AWD on the CRV. I'm sure I watched a similar video on the Toyota system (briefly mentioned at 1:51) but can't find it now.


I did look at both systems, but given that the rear seats in the Toyota RAV4 didn't fold down flat, it wasn't a decision point for me.

I also wondered about this "battery full" issue. On a hybrid, that must be much more significant given the much smaller battery size. So, if you're coming down a long downgrade and the battery fills, presumably that means that it switches to mechanical braking.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Aug 30th 2020 at 9:57 pm.
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Old Aug 31st 2020, 6:51 am
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Here's a video explaining the Honda system. At 10:59 there's an explanation of how it relates to AWD on the CRV. I'm sure I watched a similar video on the Toyota system (briefly mentioned at 1:51) but can't find it now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P_VChtMGK8

I did look at both systems, but given that the rear seats in the Toyota RAV4 didn't fold down flat, it wasn't a decision point for me.

I also wondered about this "battery full" issue. On a hybrid, that must be much more significant given the much smaller battery size. So, if you're coming down a long downgrade and the battery fills, presumably that means that it switches to mechanical braking.
Thanks for the video link; I'll watch it tomorrow. Regarding the 'battery full' issue; on a hybrid, you have the combustion engine so you should be able to engage classic 'engine braking', although ... I'm not sure how I'd do that in the Prius! In my gas-only Lexus, which has an auto transmission, I will often engage a lower 'drive' setting when going downhill for long stretches to give the brakes a rest ... most noticeably, when heading north on the grapevine just north of LA. There are some long, steep stretches there where you can easily start 'running away' at 80 mph - wind resistance isn't enough to slow you down and you have to apply the brakes continuously. I've had brake disks warp on me before so I'm conscious about avoiding that! But I've never driven that road in the Prius.

Edit To Add - wow, just watched the video - fascinating! I didn't realize there were so many different ways to deliver a hybrid solution! So Honda's approach is quite different from Toyota's, and there are various pros and cons. I think I'll indulge in watching a bunch of these videos tomorrow and maybe convince myself to buy a hybrid next time! It was interesting to hear that the Acura line are not following the same approach; Acura's seem to be a dying breed so I'm surprised to hear they have developed a different approach - more stuff to watch

And also ... how is the CRV hybrid to drive? Are you happy with it? I must say, I quite like driving my g/f's Prius, other than the noise level when the gas engine is running.

Last edited by Steerpike; Aug 31st 2020 at 7:10 am.
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Old Aug 31st 2020, 7:15 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Thanks for the video link; I'll watch it tomorrow. Regarding the 'battery full' issue; on a hybrid, you have the combustion engine so you should be able to engage classic 'engine braking', although ... I'm not sure how I'd do that in the Prius! In my gas-only Lexus, which has an auto transmission, I will often engage a lower 'drive' setting when going downhill for long stretches to give the brakes a rest ... most noticeably, when heading north on the grapevine just north of LA. There are some long, steep stretches there where you can easily start 'running away' at 80 mph - wind resistance isn't enough to slow you down and you have to apply the brakes continuously. I've had brake disks warp on me before so I'm conscious about avoiding that! But I've never driven that road in the Prius.
I'm also a "down shifter" in my gas BMW even on steep streets in San Francisco! But hybrids typically only have a CVT or no actual transmission at all. So no downshifting. So that is why I'm now wondering about the "battery full" issue on long downslopes.

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Edit To Add - wow, just watched the video - fascinating! I didn't realize there were so many different ways to deliver a hybrid solution! So Honda's approach is quite different from Toyota's, and there are various pros and cons. I think I'll indulge in watching a bunch of these videos tomorrow and maybe convince myself to buy a hybrid next time! It was interesting to hear that the Acura line are not following the same approach; Acura's seem to be a dying breed so I'm surprised to hear they have developed a different approach - more stuff to watch
It's all very interesting. I was anti hybrids for a long time due to the kludgy nature of having to have two forms of propulsion. But from talking to green friends I became convinced that doing something to get car manufacturers dealing with electrical motors and other technology outweighed that concern. I also wasn't willing to invest as much in a vehicle as Tesla charges for theirs.

Originally Posted by Steerpike
And also ... how is the CRV hybrid to drive? Are you happy with it? I must say, I quite like driving my g/f's Prius, other than the noise level when the gas engine is running.
We've driven 2.5k so far, so early days. We'll probably be going on a longer road trip with it to the north coast area next week. So far, I am liking it a lot. As I've mentioned before, the trim level has meant I'm pleasantly surprised at how comfortable and ""luxury" it feels even compared to my BMW. I have yet to get the EPA claimed mileage in the city of 40mpg. I'm a pretty conservative driver (as is my wife) and usually beat the EPA figures, but I'm currently getting about 38mpg in SF and 36 highway (EPA says 35mpg on highway). Some people complain about the Honda "infotainment" system but I actually find it a plus that the screen is relatively small compared to some other vehicles. I use Apple CarPlay all the time and that has a few limitations (on the CarPlay side, not the car side) that I hope Apple fixes. The awd was definitely useful and worked well on some steep dirt roads near the Yuba River a few weeks ago.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Aug 31st 2020 at 7:49 pm.
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Old Aug 31st 2020, 7:44 pm
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Scene on the Street. Danville Ca
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Old Sep 1st 2020, 5:32 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
I'm also a "down shifter" in my gas BMW even on steep streets in San Francisco! But hybrids typically only have a CVT or no actual transmission at all. So no downshifting. So that is why I'm now wondering about the "battery full" issue on long downslopes.
Please do post any new info you find! Dammit one of my old consulting clients has asked me for help and I'm suddenly having to ... work! I can't indulge in reading about hybrid systems all day, or whatever else takes my fancy! Funny how you adapt to retirement!

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
It's all very interesting. I was anti hybrids for a long time due to the kludgy nature of having to have two forms of propulsion. But from talking to green friends I became convinced that doing something to get car manufacturers dealing with electrical motors and other technology outweighed that concern. I also wasn't willing to invest as much in a vehicle as Tesla charges for theirs.
I have two issues with pure EV's. One is the fact I drive 750 miles a pop between CA and AZ; I'd have to schedule breaks quite carefully to do that in an EV. But the other is 'flexibility'. Last year, as you know, some areas of CA were hit with multi-day power outages - some friends lost their freezer contents, for example. Imagine having an EV as your only car and having no charging ability. Mixing gas and battery seems such a nice compromise. I guess if you make a point of always keeping the vehicle charged, then the 100+ miles range should be enough to keep you out of trouble. Eventually I would imagine EVs will evolve to interchangeable battery packs - you drive in to some 'charging station' and swap out your discharged battery and pick up a charged one; the battery would not be your property but rather 'rented' or something (not unlike the way propane tanks are now interchangeable).
Originally Posted by Giantaxe
We've driven 2.5k so far, so early days. We'll probably be going on a longer road trip with it to the north coast area next week. So far, I am liking it a lot. As I've mentioned before, the trim level has meant I'm pleasantly surprised at how comfortable and ""luxury" it feels even compared to my BMW. I have yet to get the EPA claimed mileage in the city of 40mpg. I'm a pretty conservative driver (as is my wife) and usually beat the EPA figures, but I'm currently getting about 38mpg in SF and 36 highway (EPA says 35mpg on highway). Some people complain about the Honda "infotainment" system but I actually find it a plus that the screen is relatively small compared to some other vehicles. I use Apple CarPlay all the time and that has a few limitations (on the CarPlay side, not the car side) that I hope Apple fixes. The awd was definitely useful and worked well on some steep dirt roads near the Yuba River a few weeks ago.
Does it support BOTH Apple Carplay AND Android Auto? I'm waiting for that situation to settle down. For a while, certain mfr's would go one way or the other. They really all need to support both. One 'show stopper' for me would be air conditioning controls. I am a bit of a 'tweaker' when it comes to AC temperature and fan speed. I like dedicated, physical buttons on the dash that I can reach out to and press. Having to navigate through levels of on-screen menus for these things is unacceptable to me. My current Lexus RX350 has dedicated temperature and fan speed buttons, but to turn the AC off, you have to navigate deep down some menus - they really assume you never want to turn off the AC.
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Old Sep 1st 2020, 5:40 pm
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Originally Posted by johnwoo

Scene on the Street. Danville Ca
Danville often has some cuties parked on the streets for some reason. Exactly 1 year ago, saw this:

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Old Sep 1st 2020, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Steerpike
Last year, as you know, some areas of CA were hit with multi-day power outages - some friends lost their freezer contents, for example. Imagine having an EV as your only car and having no charging ability.
FWIW when tornadoes hit here a few years back parts of Alabama were without power for days, no power meant all their gas stations were shut so gas drivers were just as screwed as EV owners. I couldn't even get gas locally as everyone was coming across the state line to buy it up.
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Old Sep 23rd 2020, 7:02 pm
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California to ban gas only cars by 2035. This also appears to ban standard hybrids, but not plugin hybrids. Presumably this will result in litigation from the climate change deniers of the Trump Administration:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...n-15591347.php
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