2020 Election

Old Nov 15th 2018, 6:31 am
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Exactly

Think it was Proposition 8 in CA, the interested parties threw a lot of money against it and it failed, thought it would be an obvious win.
Prop 8 was the 'Kidney Dialysis' proposition. It aimed to specifically limit profits for Dialysis centers.
https://abc7news.com/politics/2018-v...ion-8/4336543/ ;
https://ballotpedia.org/California_P...itiative_(2018)

As much as everyone wants to limit healthcare costs, this was a bad way to go about it. This article, in the liberal SF newspaper, explains why it's a bad idea - https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/...s-13306673.php

And this is that liberal paper's editorial recommending a 'no' vote.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/...e-13216454.php
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 6:36 am
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Default Re: 2020 Election

I have been a resident of Canada for 38 years. In that time I had 3 children born here, zero out of pocket cost. Two of those children had 10 day hospital stays, one weeks after birth and one at age 5 with a serious intestinal infection, zero out of pocket cost. I had 7 kidney stone attacks including 2 hospital stays and a medical airlift, plus a hospital stay for a severe blood infection and an unrelated elective surgery, zero out of pocket cost. Also zero out of pocket for the numerous emerg visits with sick or injured children. The list goes on. Yes, I paid higher taxes than I would have in the U.S. but nowhere near the cost of monthly insurance premiums, deductibles and copays. The system is not perfect, no system is, but it beats the insane crap in the U.S. In truth, they should increase the health care tax surcharge here..it is based on income and added to your annual income tax. Most I ever had to pay was 500 for the year. Boosting it would help with the shortfalls in the system.
Bottom line, it has done fine by me. The U.S. could take a lesson.

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Old Nov 15th 2018, 9:11 am
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Default Re: 2020 Election

I have been using the British Columbia healthcare system for 13 years now, overall not a bad system. Some annoyances but nothing horrible. Biggest downside is lack of GP's accepting patients.

Of course depending on province in Canada there might be some out of pocket costs, prescriptions being a big one which may require one to get supplement insurance, and a small list of things not covered at all, but its not horrible.

I rate from my usage of the medical system here, B would go higher but lack of GP's and difficulty getting mental health care which brings my grade down.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Yes, I paid higher taxes than I would have in the U.S. but nowhere near the cost of monthly insurance premiums, deductibles and copays.
This is where the problem comes. You say higher taxes to an American and they are ready to storm DC (usually with guns, at least here in GA) to stop it. They don't seem to realize that the amount they pay in insurance cots would most likely cover any additional taxes that they would have to pay.

There's simply a fundamentally different idea of what 'Government' is and is for in the US then the majority of other western democracies, at least in the red states. The Government doing anything for it's citizens other than staying out of the way is 'Socialism', allegedly.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

A conservative thinktank came out with some numbers, so you can be sure that they were on the higher side of the reasonable costs. I'm not sure if they realised before or after they published them, but it turned out 10% cheaper than what the US currently spends. The official figures haven't been calculated yet because they haven't worked out enough of the details of the plan.

Every attack ad on a Democrat in my area came with a warning that they would raise taxes to the highest levels ever to pay for healthcare, conveniently ignoring that no one would be paying insurance anymore. My wife's thousand dollar broken toe has woken up my mother-in-law about how insane medical costs are.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 2:34 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Michael Avenatti Got Arrested
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Michael Avenatti Got Arrested
Didn't you tell us this yesterday?

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post

Michael Avenatti in Los Angeles police custody


Wonder how this will impact his 2020 run?
​​​​​​​
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Didn't you tell us this yesterday?

I thought the MAGA would have been obvious.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 7:16 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I thought the MAGA would have been obvious.
Maybe under normal circumstances but since you are always randomly capitalizing non-proper nouns .... ahem.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 7:39 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
When California was toying with the idea of single payer, the estimate was $400 billion/yr at the start from the sources I have seen. As far as I know the idea was shelved in the state assembly.

California and Canada have similar populations and Canada in 2017 spent about $240 billion on healthcare. ($240 billion Canadian dollar.) Obviously healthcare costs here rise over time, and that was for 2017, 2013 was $211 billion.
I was discussing health care with a friend in BC Canada. He has some health issues to deal with. Judging from what he said, the care he was receiving it seemed to me that I was better off with my senior advantage plan in the US. Obviously not all people in California enjoy the same coverage as I do but call it selfish I wouldnt be very happy to see a single payer health plan replace it.

I remember my father in the UK had to wait five years to get knee surgery done. Here I could make an appointment and have it done within two -three months. There's nothing wrong with the NHS of course but if it's based on single payer I would not be better off with it than I am now.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 7:53 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I thought the MAGA would have been obvious.
Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Maybe under normal circumstances but since you are always randomly capitalizing non-proper nouns .... ahem.
Holy Crap, Boiler - that was 'obvious'? I'm glad I don't have to live inside your head!
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
I was discussing health care with a friend in BC Canada. He has some health issues to deal with. Judging from what he said, the care he was receiving it seemed to me that I was better off with my senior advantage plan in the US. Obviously not all people in California enjoy the same coverage as I do but call it selfish I wouldnt be very happy to see a single payer health plan replace it.

I remember my father in the UK had to wait five years to get knee surgery done. Here I could make an appointment and have it done within two -three months. There's nothing wrong with the NHS of course but if it's based on single payer I would not be better off with it than I am now.
I had an incident about 5 years ago (heart-attack scare). The care I got here in the US was nothing short of outstanding. The bill for about 3 days of 'stuff' was north of $30k. I was an employee of a typical company at the time with good 'Group Coverage' insurance. My out-of-pocket was very low. I have no complaints whatsoever. But I was LUCKY then to have insurance through an employer. What I'm learning now is that the unemployed and self-employed don't have access to this 'great deal'. It is for those people that we need to get something in place. It's likely that any 'single payer' or 'Medicare for all' solution will not preclude employers from offering 'better' insurance as an employee perk / incentive. Even the UK allows for private insurance to 'top up' or 'supplement' the NHS. So I don't think anyone is saying that employer-provided 'deluxe' insurance will change; what we are trying to change is what the self-employed and un-employed have access to.

What is quite ironic about this is that 'self-employment' / 'small business' is the wet dream of Republicans, so you'd think they would be eager to figure a way to extend 'group healthcare'-like benefits to people trying to pursue these avenues. Obamacare/ACA was a key factor in allowing me to quit full-time corporate employment and start my own company - I could actually purchase a comprehensive plan that didn't have caps and pre-existing conditions, without working for a company. This could be turned into a Republican 'talking point' if they could get their act together.
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Old Nov 15th 2018, 9:32 pm
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I had an incident about 5 years ago (heart-attack scare). The care I got here in the US was nothing short of outstanding. The bill for about 3 days of 'stuff' was north of $30k. I was an employee of a typical company at the time with good 'Group Coverage' insurance. My out-of-pocket was very low. I have no complaints whatsoever. But I was LUCKY then to have insurance through an employer. What I'm learning now is that the unemployed and self-employed don't have access to this 'great deal'. It is for those people that we need to get something in place. It's likely that any 'single payer' or 'Medicare for all' solution will not preclude employers from offering 'better' insurance as an employee perk / incentive. Even the UK allows for private insurance to 'top up' or 'supplement' the NHS. So I don't think anyone is saying that employer-provided 'deluxe' insurance will change; what we are trying to change is what the self-employed and un-employed have access to.

What is quite ironic about this is that 'self-employment' / 'small business' is the wet dream of Republicans, so you'd think they would be eager to figure a way to extend 'group healthcare'-like benefits to people trying to pursue these avenues. Obamacare/ACA was a key factor in allowing me to quit full-time corporate employment and start my own company - I could actually purchase a comprehensive plan that didn't have caps and pre-existing conditions, without working for a company. This could be turned into a Republican 'talking point' if they could get their act together.

I pay north of $600 per month now to cover self, spouse and son through the group plan at work. Insurance pays 80% of covered expenses, no deductible, assorted copays, $3k per year max out of pocket individual, $5k family. This is considered pretty good coverage, but an individual would be hard-pressed to pay for that outside of a group (the preimums would be much, much higher since there would be no employer contribution). Still, that is a serious amount of money per month.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 2:56 am
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I had an incident about 5 years ago (heart-attack scare). The care I got here in the US was nothing short of outstanding. The bill for about 3 days of 'stuff' was north of $30k. I was an employee of a typical company at the time with good 'Group Coverage' insurance. My out-of-pocket was very low. I have no complaints whatsoever. But I was LUCKY then to have insurance through an employer. What I'm learning now is that the unemployed and self-employed don't have access to this 'great deal'. It is for those people that we need to get something in place. It's likely that any 'single payer' or 'Medicare for all' solution will not preclude employers from offering 'better' insurance as an employee perk / incentive. Even the UK allows for private insurance to 'top up' or 'supplement' the NHS. So I don't think anyone is saying that employer-provided 'deluxe' insurance will change; what we are trying to change is what the self-employed and un-employed have access to.

What is quite ironic about this is that 'self-employment' / 'small business' is the wet dream of Republicans, so you'd think they would be eager to figure a way to extend 'group healthcare'-like benefits to people trying to pursue these avenues. Obamacare/ACA was a key factor in allowing me to quit full-time corporate employment and start my own company - I could actually purchase a comprehensive plan that didn't have caps and pre-existing conditions, without working for a company. This could be turned into a Republican 'talking point' if they could get their act together.

Canada is as far as I know the only developed country with universal healthcare to not permit private insurance on anything covered by the medical system, we can get supplemental insurance for things not covered like dental, out of hospital prescriptions, physio and such.

But if you have a heart attack the hospital bill will be $0 and all medications while in hospital will be covered as will nearly all supplies and equipment used, doctors wont bill you.

In BC we have fair pharmacare available to anyone covered under the health plan for prescriptions, its income based so higher income, the higher the deductible before coverage kicks in, I believe its covers 70% once the deductible is met.

Wife has disability status so we get supplemental coverage via the province so most prescriptions are covered so we dont have a deductible to meet.

You can get procedures like a colonoscopy done and there will be no charges of any kind. I have had 2 in the last 8 years and longest wait was 2 months but I was low risk and it wasn't for cancer concern, would have been quicker if cancer was suspected.

Longest wait ever was 9 months for a heart stress test but again I was low risk and heart attack or failure or such was not a concern.

For the most part the system works.

If you have an emergency and end up in the ER you wont be waiting long, no worse then any ER I experienced in the US.

Not perfect but I wont go bankrupt from being hurt or sick or having a heart attack or stroke.

They do charge for paramedics though, I think its around $75


(My experience is with BC, healthcare is provincial.)

Last edited by Jsmth321; Nov 16th 2018 at 3:04 am.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 5:56 am
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Default Re: 2020 Election

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I had an incident about 5 years ago (heart-attack scare). The care I got here in the US was nothing short of outstanding. The bill for about 3 days of 'stuff' was north of $30k. I was an employee of a typical company at the time with good 'Group Coverage' insurance. My out-of-pocket was very low. I have no complaints whatsoever. But I was LUCKY then to have insurance through an employer. What I'm learning now is that the unemployed and self-employed don't have access to this 'great deal'. It is for those people that we need to get something in place. It's likely that any 'single payer' or 'Medicare for all' solution will not preclude employers from offering 'better' insurance as an employee perk / incentive. Even the UK allows for private insurance to 'top up' or 'supplement' the NHS. So I don't think anyone is saying that employer-provided 'deluxe' insurance will change; what we are trying to change is what the self-employed and un-employed have access to.

What is quite ironic about this is that 'self-employment' / 'small business' is the wet dream of Republicans, so you'd think they would be eager to figure a way to extend 'group healthcare'-like benefits to people trying to pursue these avenues. Obamacare/ACA was a key factor in allowing me to quit full-time corporate employment and start my own company - I could actually purchase a comprehensive plan that didn't have caps and pre-existing conditions, without working for a company. This could be turned into a Republican 'talking point' if they could get their act together.
i'm also very happy with the insurance I have. I need three prescriptions which I have to take daily. I pay nothing for any of them. For refills I call my pharmacy, they contact my doctor and a day later the pharmacy calls and tells me they're ready. No charge for doctor visits. No charge for hospital stays. or surgery if needed No charge for specialist visits and free membership at any gym which participates in the Silver Sneakers program.

I realize that I'm one of the fortunate individuals and that many younger Californians need a decent health plan but I would hope that any plans by the State to introduce a single payer plan will exempt seniors in my group.

I would also say that I'm better off than any senior my age north of the border
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