2016 Election
#1426
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,894
Re: 2016 Election
In his book, "Decision Points," p. 390, Bush states that the withdrawal of forces by the end of 2011 was not arbitrary. "The agreement had been negotiated between two sovereign governments...[I]f conditions changed and Iraqis requested a continued American presence we could amend the SOFA and keep troops in the country."
In October 2011, American officials pressed Iraqi leadership to meet again at President Talabani’s compound to discuss the issue. This time the U.S. asked Iraq to take a stand on the question of immunity for troops, hoping to remove what had always been the biggest challenge. However, they misread Iraqi politics and the Iraqi public. Having watched the Arab Spring sweep across the region and still haunted by the traumas of this and previous wars, the Iraqis were unwilling to accept anything that infringed on their sovereignty.
Iraqi leadership picked up on that sentiment quickly. As a result, they publicly said they would not support legal immunity for any American troops. Some American officials have privately said that pushing for that meeting — in essence forcing the Iraqis to take a public stand on such a controversial matter before working out the politics of presenting it to their constituents and to Parliament — was a severe tactical mistake that ended any possibility of keeping American troops past December 2011."
Having watched the Arab Spring sweep across the region and still haunted by the traumas of this and previous wars, the Iraqis were unwilling to accept anything that infringed on their sovereignty.
"Rewriting History: Conservatives Attack Obama For Withdrawing All Troops From Iraq"
But talks ran aground over Iraqi opposition to giving American troops legal immunity that would shield them from Iraqi prosecution. Legal protection for U.S. troops has always angered everyday Iraqis who saw it as simply a way for the Americans to run roughshod over the country.
And who can blame "everyday Iraqis" from feeling that way when things like this happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Gh...prisoner_abuse
Last edited by Giantaxe; Sep 22nd 2015 at 9:40 am.
#1427
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: 2016 Election
Bush broke Humpty Dumpty. The notion that Obama's or any other administration could have put Humpty Dumpty back together again is laughable.
#1428
Re: 2016 Election
At great cost in blood and treasure we freed them from one of the most gruesome dictatorships in modern history. They have almost completely thrown it away to pursue their interminable sectarian warfare and dreams of establishing a world caliphate. If it were possible to hermetically seal them all off from the rest of the world, would any of the rest of us give one flying f@@k about them?
#1429
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: 2016 Election
Bush 43 created a power vacuum in Iraq that had led to a civil war, killed tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and spawned Al Qaeda in Iraq and ISIS. Only a buffoon would be proud of those "accomplishments."
#1431
Re: 2016 Election
Christie could definitely get my support, at least on some topics, if he wouldn't get so worked up about marijuana ... I can't see that as a big vote getter so why does he make such a big deal about it ... I suppose it gives him something to differentiate himself on. But even he paid at least lip service to the need to reduce the penalties on first offenders.
Even the 'vaccination' topic wasn't as bad as I expected ... it seems like the only issue 'The Donald' raised was the need to have lower doses spread out over greater time for some vaccines.
Last edited by Leslie; Sep 22nd 2015 at 1:36 pm.
#1432
Re: 2016 Election
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
#1433
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: 2016 Election
Not defending why we went in - just pointing out that we did get rid of Saddam for them.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
#1434
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,894
Re: 2016 Election
Not defending why we went in - just pointing out that we did get rid of Saddam for them.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
Yeh, those bastards. They really should appreciate the US killing more than a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:27 pm.
#1435
Re: 2016 Election
Not defending why we went in - just pointing out that we did get rid of Saddam for them.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
Apparently the bastards didn't appreciate it. With an attitude like that, we should have left them in the hands of a guy whose Mukhabarat is supposed to have fed regime opponents live into wood chipping machines. At least he kept order. Since ISIS would have been considered a threat to his regime he would have massacred them and saved us all a lot of trouble.
#1436
Re: 2016 Election
Hope not. Maybe we learned lessons in Iraq and Vietnam. Of course, if the Norks hit us with their nukes, we should know what to do. I think their next gen missiles might be able to reach San Fran...it would be interesting to see what the libs would do if they took out the city.
Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Sep 22nd 2015 at 3:38 pm.
#1437
Re: 2016 Election
Yeh, those bastards. They really should appreciate the US killing more than a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians.
http://images.tcj.com/2012/07/Abu-Ghraib.jpg
http://images.tcj.com/2012/07/Abu-Ghraib.jpg