You have to apply for it. I don't for a moment believe they bother, and I don't suppose many believe they do either, apart from when they wish to justify an internet rant.

Cliff Richards only fan yeah right, I would have written the same whoever or whichever ageing celeb you cited in your (rather nasty) post.

And during those 45 years you would have had the full support of the British NI system at the time and quite rightly so.

It's not a savings scheme it's a benefits system to provide for those who are currently in need in the UK, not for those who have decided they want the best of both worlds, i.e. UK benefits and an expat lifestyle. If people are genuinely struggling then they can always return to the UK and sign on for means tested Pension Credit.

C4 money prog today. average UK household increase in heating costs in wi 2014 is estimated at £100 ( 50% of WFA ).
Still want to keep complaining obout how hard done by you are in Spain !!!

The WFA is not, for the umpteenth time, paid to those who are currently in need in the UK - it is paid to everybody who is entitled to a UK state pension whether they need it or not.

The NI system is a kind of contract between the Government and contributors - when we started work we were told "if you pay NI contributions for x years you will receive a State Pension at the age of x". There have been a lot of changes in recent years, but that basic principle remains. All those who have paid sufficient contributions get the basic pension, and everybody who receives the basic pension also receives the WFA. Following a legal challenge, the Government was forced to pay WFA to UK citizens residing in other EU countries who are also entitled to UK state pensions. Because they have paid for them.

If this or any future Government decided to restrict payment of the WFA to only those in need, by way of paying it only to those in receipt of Pension Credit (which would exclude anyone living outside the UK) I would have no objection to that at all. It might even mean that those in real need could receive a larger allowance.

All true. And I couldn't agree more.

Someone in Cameron's clan (or was it Cameron?) was speaking the other day on BBC, I believe the subject was about EU regulation, and how we don't need more regulation, but smarter regulation.

I think what you propose is a very good example of smarter regulation of the benefits system, instead of adding more regulation to fix the flaws in the current regulation, only adding more bureaucracy and inevitably shutting some people out who actually need it.

another person living in Wonderland

Benefits are there for people who cannot support themselves - NOT for people who won't work because it isn't cost effective to get out of bed in the morning

Stop snapping like a poodle at the ankles of Pensioners who have no control over the only "benefit" they get from living their lives in the UK, working long hours, being taxed to the hilt all their lives, to find the private pension scheme sold to them all those years ago goes bust a year before their retirement, or starts blaming "the current stockmarket turndown" when there should be many many years of good years to have stored the wheat.

It is you that appears to be the self-centred one in all this, although I still have to work out why.
This thread is only repeating the same old diatribe the previous one on this subject covered and is going round in circles.
Vote to have this thread closed as there is nothing new.

`

Thank you. That's what I like about this forum - sometimes! You can have two people whose views are usually wildly divergent but some of them, at least, are adult and gracious enough to acknowledge those occasions where there is some common ground.

NI is not a savings scheme, it is simply a form of income tax , nothing more nothing less.
The total sum of NI contributions each year does not even come close to meeting the bill for pensions, benefits etc etc.
You have as much say and right to how much you are entiltled to receive in benefits as you do regarding any other form of government expenditure.

Yes you are right NI like many other taxes just goes into one big pot. Road tax doesn't get spent on roads goes in the pot. One problem is governments have over many years re directed money for this or that reason, but continue to still call these taxes the same. Hence people believe they have paid insurance NI and can get something out. Maybe names should be changed. I seem to remember a while back Osborne muting doing away with NI and having a 30% income tax rate? Problem is those on say early retirement etc woould lose out as currently NI paid on earned income.

It's true that many expats are moving back, for lots of reasons. I'm getting fed up with going home parties for expats who have lived in Spain for many years and are now leaving us.

The strange thing is, and it's recent, for every two leaving, three are arriving. The leavers, if they price their houses at sensible levels, sell within weeks, and most of the incomers are from the UK, much the same as the people who are leaving but 20 years younger.

A bit unkind, but I compare it to culling the deer on a country estate, the old boys need to go to be replaced by young blood.

The idea doesn't exactly fill me with joy, my antlers are starting to creak.

I have read that there are are plans to cut "out of work benefits" further from the 26k limit.

If that happens I cannot see the WFA for expats surviving very long, as the welfare rights people in the UK will use all the amunition available to them to stir up public outrage and bash the MPs with.

Somebody needs to explain the principle of false economy to the "outraged public". Take this advice, for instance:-

What is the least expensive option for the British taxpayer? Continue paying £13M per year in WFA to European-based expats, or foot the bill for all the extra Pension Credit claims that might be generated if those who are struggling took Jennie's advice (and the extra Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, free bus passes, free TV licences if over 75, free prescriptions, extra patients (many with complex health needs) on GP's lists, occupying hospital beds, places on NHS dentists' lists, applying for Council-funded home care, and so on)?

Given all the indications that an ageing population is placing an ever-increasing strain on public services and the economy, the British public ought to be thankful that so many older people have chosen to move elsewhere - it's saving them a fortune.

I wish people would stop describing ex pats as rich Many have sold a modest house in UK in order to have a better life in Spain(debatable) Some are on just the state pension.
As it's unworkable to sus out those who live in UK, over winter in Spain and thus don't need it, the only fair solution is to means test it-perhaps those whose total household income(from husband and wife, and anyone else living at the address) is less than £25-30,000?
As for cheaper cost of living in Spain, electricity charges are surely the most expensive in Europe?

Perhaps better to deduct it from bills. Or add it on to basic pension and tax it

If Spanish electricity charges are the most expensive in Europe then there are many on this forum who don't realise it. On cost of living threads everyone comes on and say how cheap everything is in Spain and when it comes to these WFA threads it's all gone expensive