Bit of a problem with that for me re child allowance in my view the children allowance given for should also be in the UK not as it is now where you can claim for families not in UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-overseas.html

Lynn as for fairness when the politicians use that term I find it usually means I a, going to lose out on something I thought I was going to get. But I do see your reasoning currently I am in the 2 house bracket but not old enough for WFA yet. Our plans at the moment for a number of reasons are unknown, but getting or not getting WFA is not one of the reasons.

The WFA was never meant for pensioners who were living in Spain etc.

And in my view if any pensioner is able to move to Spain, then they are able to afford to pay their own fuel bills without the WFA.

And your bleeding heart for the ones that can only afford one home abroad, cuts no ice with me, as the poorest pensioners could not move to Spain in the first place.

A person in the UK that is suffeing all kinds of cuts, to pay the WFA for someone who has chosen to live in Spain, when they themselves cannot afford to move abroad, is not my idea of fairness either.

It would hack me off no end, if I was a pensioner in the UK, struggling to pay my fuel bills, to have to read such drivel about fauxpoor pensiners in Spain moaning about the WFA being cut.
The real poor pensioners are still in the UK, as moving abroad costs.

And when viewed like that, no wonder the great British public are peeved about it, and the government want to stop it for expats.

....and don't forget many on here are always telling us how cheap it is in Spain compared with the UK. They should have surplus income for the heating

I'm amazed at the interest generated once again on such a minor petty matter,
though seeing child allowances being paid out to ppl in foreign countries with little or no interest in the UK other than to milk the system does make my blood boil somewhat.

To be able to afford a second house in Spain lifts you way above the ordinary British person stuck in the UK. If they weren't stuck, they'd all be here, because, lets be honest, the quality of life is far superior to that back in the rainy, dreary, poverty stricken UK, full of foreigners nicking benefits from the locals.

We are in a privileged position, we're in paradise and we should keep very stumm about the silly WFA.

yes understandable, although generally hype generated by jealous people in the DM who keep having a go at pensioners and others living abroad - Spain in particular.

but they don't have a go about those from Eastern Europe who get Child Support (as imposed by the EU) for children that never leave the home country. Something to do with upsetting fluffy bunnies.

as I said on the previous thread on this subject yonks ago - WFA is a bonus that I didn't factor into my running expenses. Yes it comes in handy but soon goes in a country with high electricity costs.
but if Cliff Richard, Phil Collins, Philip Green, Shirley Bassey and a number of other supposedly well off people get it - then I will also take it.
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A very simplistic argument which is very wide of the mark considering the number of ex expats who have decided life is better back in Blighty after all, not to mention the number of Spaniards and half a million other hangers on from all around the globe who are stampeding into the UK every single year.

The whole concept of these non means tested allowances is flawed in today's post war post EU environment.

Child allowance was introduced post WW2 to increase the population and was originally not paid for the first child. It was also paid to the lady of the house as it was felt that the man could possibly use it for booze and fags. In latter years the husband's personal tax allowance was reduced by the amount of the child allowance paid to the wife. Currently it cannot be withdrawn, even though there is no immediate need for population growth, politically as there are a lot of low income families with several children who depend on the extra income.

The whole concept of a united Europe was to be freedom of movement within member states. This meant that UK nationals could live in any member state and still retain, in the most part, the benefits of living in the UK. Similarly other member states nationals' could come an live in UK where they would pay taxes to the UK and the costs would be evened out on a swings and roundabout basis.

However in these austerity ridden times jingoism has reared its ugly head and xenophobia is the order of the day. Immigrants are seen as scroungers and similarly emigrants to other EU states.

What is needed is a sense of fair play, if these UK allowances are outdated then withdraw them from everyone. If not then everyone who is a UK national should still be eligible to receive them.

There are lots of pensioners who live full time in UK who take extended holidays, months at a time, in warmer climes over the winter period. They benefit from not only the WFA but also miss paying the extra costs of heating their UK homes over the winter period. Should the WFA be withdrawn from them?

Similarly there are lots of 'ex pat' pensioners who over summer in UK because it is cooler, paying into UK economy and, in the view of some on this forum, should be denied WFA because they live in a so called warmer climate

This issue is not just black and white, and although there are some passionate posters on both sides of the fence, perhaps you ought to stand back and look at the other persons view without blinkers.

Please take the vitriolicism out of your posts and try and see the other person's point of view. Whatever your views there is never going to be a right or wrong answer to WFA. The proposed current withdrawal of the allowance for those living in a 'warmer climate' will, more than likely, be seen by the EU as illegal. The next logical step by HMG will be to discontinue it universally, sadly hitting the most vulnerable people in UK badly. Doubtless a remedy will be found but not before some hardship is experienced.

You are absolutely clueless as to if the above named bother to claim it, or indeed if they bother to claim their state old age pension.

It's just diatribe to justify the greedy who don't really need WFA in Spain, but want to 'bang on regardless' so quote a few random millionaires who probably not only haven't claimed it, but are clueless as to what it is.

It is such convenient tripe to spout, every time something like this crops up - well Sir Cliff Richards gets it - does he, does he really ? ? ?

Suspect he is not that small minded myself.

Yes if it is deemed illegal again by the EU then it will done away for those in the UK as well like my 91 year old blind father, who can barely see to turn on his gas fire (guess you will all think that's great it will mean he needs less fuel rather than die from hypothermia, while Spain is full of its extra beer money) - great work bunch of selfish expats.

And most on here purport to be socialists looking out for those worse off than themselves - I don't think so somehow fighting tooth and nail for something that was never intended to be used on expats but cold british winters.

The wfa should be abolished and added to the state pension.
I am a great believer that all benefits should form part of your taxable allowance.
Similarly all work place benefits should be treated the same way. For example why should a subsidised staff restaurant not be taxed as a benefit in kind? It's only fair on those who have no such benefit.

Stop knocking the pensioners . Its about time the child allowance was abolished , dont have kids if you cant afford them. Lots of people have kids so they can reap in all of the freebies without working

Great post Jennie.

It would be a shame if stopping the WFA to expats is deemed illegal, because as you say, it will hurt the very people who it was intended to help in the first place, ie the UK residents who have to live through British winters.

And that would be real tragedy.

What I would really like to see is the WFA withdrawn as a UNIVERSAL benefit, and an equivalent amount added to Pension Credit. Thus, those pensioners most in need would still receive it and it would increase each year to take account of inflation (which most certainly affects fuel bills). It would go only to poorer pensioners living in the UK - which I have no problem with.

But that would no doubt set up howls of protest from the "it's not fair, I've worked hard all my life and I get nothing back whilst the feckless get help from my taxes" brigade - which is the reason why it was paid as a universal benefit in the first place, to make the idea more palatable to the middle class electorate.

However, as long as the Government leaves it as a UNIVERSAL benefit which everyone who qualifies for a UK state pension receives, no matter whether they need it or not, then I believe expats should receive it too.

That is where I stongly disagree with you.

That a small(ish) number of expats (small compared to the non expats that receive the WFA) are quite OK with the fact that their stance in this matter, can possibly have the benefit scrapped for all the others who have not deserted the UK.

And expats wonder why they get slated, and are not well thought of by the reside population of the UK, it is fairly self evident to me.

As for adding WFA to the pension, why would that be a god idea?

The WFA was brought in to stop pensoners worrying about their WINTER fuel bill, and money was to pay for that purpose, to be able to pay the biggest bill of the year, not to give a little extra each month.

Otherwise it would have been called "the pensioners few more bob every week/month allowance" and not the Winter fuel allowance.

For some pensioner who are living on the edge, saving the extra for the winter bill would be difficult as they are living frugally as it is.

Then when the winter bill arrives they would not have the means to pay for it. So back to square one.

But it isn't going only to those who are "living on the edge", is it? That's why I say, if money needs to be saved, it should go only to those in receipt of Pension Credit - who need to be living in the UK in order to receive it.