Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12368547)

As a non-Brit I can assure you that is NOT TRUE !!!
Everyone I know in an EU country that choose to learn English did NOT do that to move to the UK !!!!
I think you just exposed the obsession in the UK ! As if the UK is that attractive to EU people :rofl:
Off course, there are the ones that fancy a job there, but generalizing like that is just laughable ...

Originally Posted by dougal03 (Post 12368296)

I am not sure you are correct in stating that(I can only say about)Spaniards having no interest in emigrating to Germany.When we came to Spain 30 odd years ago,we found in our area of Costa Blanca that there were a large amount of young people born here with German parents.Remember Franco was sympathetic to the German cause during WW2 & many Germans fled here just before war ending.We employed a Spanish tradesman to do some alterations who explained that his Father had been working for them on properties they bought in the1940,s in this area,notably La Nucia & Calpe.There was a restaurant on the Benidorm-La Nucia road where every 20th.April,a special dinner was held in their previous leader,s memory for his birthday.As happens everywhere,later generations remember their past roots & many young Spanish DID go to take up employment in Germany especially those who had been in construction jobs.This was not only confirmed by my Spanish son-in-law but our local papers ran adverts. even offering language classes for those wanting to relocate.We have a very multi-cultural society here which I can see that is much integrated since we came to Spain,obviously particularly after Spain joined the EU.Many other countries have borders with another speaking a different language & they often easily adapt to that one also.Unlike Britain which does not have that advantage.Pulaski,I have no knowledge of how that works out in the USA but I think you would find that the Europeans are rather more flexible than you imagine.

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12368547)

As a non-Brit I can assure you that is NOT TRUE !!!
Everyone I know in an EU country that choose to learn English did NOT do that to move to the UK !!!!
I think you just exposed the obsession in the UK ! As if the UK is that attractive to EU people :rofl:
Off course, there are the ones that fancy a job there, but generalizing like that is just laughable ...

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12368529)

But if I'm correct you seem to have only lived in English speaking countries? UK/US?

School in the UK is/was completely useless for learning a foreign language. You have to live in the culture that speaks it.

At school I had 5 years of French and passed O level with a grade 2 and one year of German which I chose to drop because of curriculum clashes with geography, which interested me more.

Sometime later I began to improve my French because my then girlfriend and my present wife of 45 years and counting had a French mother and we spent time in France (as we still do).

However, perhaps interestingly. later again I took a job in Germany and became fluent in that tongue, to the detriment of my French. I found that I only had space in my immense brain for one foreign language at a time.

My present situation is better. The parts of that brain which were concerned with career have been reclaimed and now I'm able to switch more or less successfully and effortlessly between English, German and French (in order of fluency).

This bonus was unplanned but one of the most important achievements I've pulled off (leaving the career thing out of it). .....

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12368559)

Your grasp of the nuances of what I wrote is lost on you.

If you learn a second language, and that language is English, when you look for work it is inevitable that you will look for work in your home country and other countries of which you already speak the language, then that means after your own country (plus Austria and Switzerland if you're German, and Belgium and Switzerland if you're French, etc). That's just the practical reality for MOST people.

The population of the UK has grown by about 10% in the past fifteen or so years, and that is almost entirely from immigration. I fact a lot of British people have left too, so the percentage of immigrants into the UK this century is rather more than that.

So not withstanding argument about whether people have a long term plan to move to the UK, or whether the UK is especially attractive to people in Europe is irrelevant to the observation that several million Europeans HAVE moved to the UK, whether they had a long term goal or like the place, or not!

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12368566)

If I can't speak the language before I go, I won't find work, so how do I move to Germany, or anywhere else, and "immerse" my self to pick up the language so I can find work. ..... And what if I don't have the aptitude to learn the language? You seem to be advocating jumping out or an aeroplane with a roll of fabric and a need and thread and expecting to sew a parachute before I land and make an almighty mess. ..... And my sister lived in France for SEVEN YEARS and never picked up enough French to land a job, so I don't agree that everyone would soon pick up the local lingo if they just took the leap and moved there (anywhere). It doesn't work like that for everyone!

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12368578)

Are you British ? Genuine question !

I wonder why for some Nationalities, it seems easier to pick up a language than for others.

Originally Posted by carcajou (Post 12368561)

Pulaski did not write that at all. Please go back and re-read his posts.

The use of statistics beats you citing "everyone I know."

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12368581)

What are you on about ? I replied to Pulaski's post. ......

Originally Posted by carcajou (Post 12368560)

Pulaski is correct. Earlier in the thread I published statistics from Eurostat and the Guardian; I didn't post the statistics from Spain (they were on the site) and were of a similar figure to the other Western countries.

In other words - 98% to 99% of Spaniards (that is the statistic, not a hyperbole) had not exercised their Free Movement rights. Unfortunately the statistics did not differentiate that of the 1% who had, how many were dual nationals but just self-identifying as Italian, French etc - and therefore didn't need Free Movement.

At 1% - and for many countries, it as actually less - the number of Europeans (including Spaniards) using Free Movement is statistically insignificant.

Originally Posted by Moses2013 (Post 12368781)

Stats? Free movement doesn't just mean people who permanently moved to a country. You have to count the movement of goods, services etc.

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12368599)

No, you replied to what you thought I said!

Originally Posted by bobd22 (Post 12368853)

This is going in circles to be honest , access to EU single market entails agreeing to the famous 4 EU Freedoms. That is, freedom of movement of people , capital, goods and services . It has been said you can't pick and choose which a country allows all four or no single market. That is what the negotiations are about so we have to see if any changes can or are made.

Originally Posted by bobd22 (Post 12368853)

This is going in circles to be honest , access to EU single market entails agreeing to the famous 4 EU Freedoms. That is, freedom of movement of people , capital, goods and services . It has been said you can't pick and choose which a country allows all four or no single market. That is what the negotiations are about so we have to see if any changes can or are made.