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Why disturb them?

Why disturb them?

Old Dec 18th 2010, 12:29 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I know what you are saying mate I really do, but children are fed the views and opinions of everyone they are taught by. For example, lets take the recent student riots, much of the trouble has been whipped up by their tutors, many of whom are worried about their jobs, many of whom have never done a days work in their lives, so their view of the world is warped, it is governed by the crap they in turn were taught by their tutors. Many of them go from one institution to the next, never experiencing the real world, never knowing what it actually takes to earn a wage, to do a days work to put food on their table... and yet we allow these people to not only teach children but also inevitably influence their thought. I have won money, several times, from making bets with people, generally in pubs, about the myth taught, up to Uni level, about water going down the plug hole differently depending on the hemisphere, one particular night in a Sussex pub I actually had to argue the point with a teacher FFS! This is what is being taught to "our" children mate....
Absolutely agree
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 12:55 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I know what you are saying mate I really do, but children are fed the views and opinions of everyone they are taught by. For example, lets take the recent student riots, much of the trouble has been whipped up by their tutors, many of whom are worried about their jobs, many of whom have never done a days work in their lives, so their view of the world is warped, it is governed by the crap they in turn were taught by their tutors. Many of them go from one institution to the next, never experiencing the real world, never knowing what it actually takes to earn a wage, to do a days work to put food on their table... and yet we allow these people to not only teach children but also inevitably influence their thought. I have won money, several times, from making bets with people, generally in pubs, about the myth taught, up to Uni level, about water going down the plug hole differently depending on the hemisphere, one particular night in a Sussex pub I actually had to argue the point with a teacher FFS! This is what is being taught to "our" children mate....
Right on the money Matt, nice to be abe to agree with you for once.
Season of goodwill to all men and all that,....with apologies to all the anti religious members, who might find such a Christian principle abhorrent.
It's interesting to note how most of these UK riots are started by lefty nutters, who mostly despise religion.
It's hard to tell which are the worst,the teachers or the students.
After all these years under a Socialist govt. which has poured 25 billion down the spout into the education system, results of a study by Durham Uni. indicated that illiteracy levels over the same period have actually increased.
They have dumbed down for so many years now, that the tutors are virtually as dumb as the students.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 1:10 pm
  #78  
 
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Students...teachers, lefty nutters, and I thought it was government policy

Last edited by anonimouse; Dec 18th 2010 at 1:23 pm.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 1:35 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by bil
I too would love to know what turned you.

Fascinating. So lets's see. There's a group of people each one from a different sect or religion, and each one says 'My god is the only true god, and all the rest of you are going to hell!'

At the very, very best odds, only one could be right, if any.

So what makes you so certain that your christian sect is the one that will get you a free backstage pass to heaven, and will you like it when you get there?
I became a Christian because I came to believe it to be true. I can tell you what happened but it won't be any proof to you (although it was to me). It had nothing to do with Heaven and Hell, nor my eternal salvation, although now I accept all these concepts as part of the package.

When I get to spend eternity with God then it will be what I was created for, so there won't be any like or dislike about it. Does a fish like or dislike water, or a plant like or dislike the soil? It will just be how things were always meant to be and I will get on with being the person I was intended to be in God.

I believe that all major religions have part of the truth. Christianity comes much closer to having ALL the truth than any others, although we will never know everything as some of it is none of our business.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 1:37 pm
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by cricketman
I'm still open minded in that one day I hope to meet an interesting and intelligent religious person.
In the same way that I hope one day to meet a socially balanced, worldly and considerate American

One can only dream!
Look no further!!
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:09 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I love it when people say this... Power. Power is what drives man to kill man. Power over other men, power to rule and control another peoples resources... by saying things like "religion is the source of evil yada yada yada..." it implies that without religion we would all be better off... thats not the case, we would still kill each other, still wage war, still want power and control.
Well, to me that is the whole thing in a nutshell. Religion is all about power over people.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:11 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I know what you are saying mate I really do, but children are fed the views and opinions of everyone they are taught by. For example, lets take the recent student riots, much of the trouble has been whipped up by their tutors, many of whom are worried about their jobs, many of whom have never done a days work in their lives, so their view of the world is warped, it is governed by the crap they in turn were taught by their tutors. Many of them go from one institution to the next, never experiencing the real world, never knowing what it actually takes to earn a wage, to do a days work to put food on their table... and yet we allow these people to not only teach children but also inevitably influence their thought. I have won money, several times, from making bets with people, generally in pubs, about the myth taught, up to Uni level, about water going down the plug hole differently depending on the hemisphere, one particular night in a Sussex pub I actually had to argue the point with a teacher FFS! This is what is being taught to "our" children mate....
It is enough to make you weep, I agree.

I would just like to see it illegal to indoctrinate children with religion or politics.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:13 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
So Hitler and Stalin did what they did because of religion? The Korean war? Religion? The Romans romped across the known world because of religion? The list goes on.... yet people only ever focus on the Crusades as an example.
Sorry mate, but Hitler, Mao, Stalin et all, all were religions. Look at Kim Jong Bing Bong. He is considered a god by most of his followers.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:15 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt
So it was religion that forced millions of Germans to turn a blind eye? Its religion that is making millions of North Koreans do whatever their Esteemed Leader says? Millions of Russians stood by while Stalin et al raped the country of its brightest sons and daughters?

Man is evil, pure and simple, it could be argued that religion, in its purest form was invented to stem that flow of evil....
And while the Inquisition tortured etc etc etc...

Religion was invented to give witchdoctors an easy life.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:16 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by cricketman
I dont think men are evil at all

I do think that power corrupts all but the very best

And religion is a very handy man-made concept with which to transfer power from the masses to the "enlightened few"
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What price divine power?
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:25 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by scampicat

I became a Christian because I came to believe it to be true. I can tell you what happened but it won't be any proof to you (although it was to me). It had nothing to do with Heaven and Hell, nor my eternal salvation, although now I accept all these concepts as part of the package.

When I get to spend eternity with God then it will be what I was created for, so there won't be any like or dislike about it. Does a fish like or dislike water, or a plant like or dislike the soil? It will just be how things were always meant to be and I will get on with being the person I was intended to be in God.

I believe that all major religions have part of the truth. Christianity comes much closer to having ALL the truth than any others, although we will never know everything as some of it is none of our business.
Fascinating. I particularly like your comment "When I get to spend eternity with God then it will be what I was created for, so there won't be any like or dislike about it."

That's one of the more logical and sensible responses. Most believers don't usually have that much reasoning.

Now if I may, I'd like to address the elephant in the room.

You worship a being that has infinite power and who maintains his own private torture chamber, in which he has tortured ETERNALLY all those who have displeased him, including those whose sole crime was to be born before Jesus. Think about it, if it requires you to acknowledge Jesus as your saviour, then Job, Abraham and Noah, possibly the most ethical people in the bible will be burning there in hell.

You tho will be now what god has always meant you to be, which presumably precludes any sense of empathy or compassion towards those poor sods in hell.

Now me, if picked the nastiest person on the planet ever, I doubt that I could listen to them scream for too long before it started to turn my stomach.

Being a serious student of all this, (I'm not kidding when I say that) I would really appreciate it if from your position you would address the elephant, and explain to me where I am wrong.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:33 pm
  #87  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Right on the money Matt, nice to be abe to agree with you for once.
It's hard to tell which are the worst,the teachers or the students.
After all these years under a Socialist govt. which has poured 25 billion down the spout into the education system, results of a study by Durham Uni. indicated that illiteracy levels over the same period have actually increased.
They have dumbed down for so many years now, that the tutors are virtually as dumb as the students.
Oh come on dude, let's be fair and not just blame this on the left wing. Unless of course you can demonstrate that there has been consistantly rises under the Tories, and slumps in education under Labour.

The whole teaching system is shot to shit. I can remember 20 years back when the Tories were in power, I met one of my old teachers. He and his wife were then earning a living teaching school leavers BASIC LITERACY AND NUMERACY. In short, they couldn't write their own names or do the simplest sums.

That has always been the case for some time now, and to me suggests that the whole system suffers from long term problems that can't be simplistically off loaded onto the party of ones choice, in order to validate personal political prejudices.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:43 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by bil
Oh come on dude, let's be fair and not just blame this on the left wing. Unless of course you can demonstrate that there has been consistantly rises under the Tories, and slumps in education under Labour.

The whole teaching system is shot to shit. I can remember 20 years back when the Tories were in power, I met one of my old teachers. He and his wife were then earning a living teaching school leavers BASIC LITERACY AND NUMERACY. In short, they couldn't write their own names or do the simplest sums.

That has always been the case for some time now, and to me suggests that the whole system suffers from long term problems that can't be simplistically off loaded onto the party of ones choice, in order to validate personal political prejudices.
Yes there have always been stupid people

Unfortunately nowadays with daytime TV and reality shows, stupid people get more publicity!

If someone is still illiterate after spending 12 years at school then there is little hope for them, even at the worst of schools. You can take the horse to water..
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:46 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

Originally Posted by cricketman
Yes there have always been stupid people

Unfortunately nowadays with daytime TV and reality shows, stupid people get more publicity!

If someone is still illiterate after spending 12 years at school then there is little hope for them, even at the worst of schools. You can take the horse to water..
Yeah, but to be blunt, if normal, ie not retarded kids are leaving school unable to read or write, the THE TEACHERS ARE TO BLAME.

They don't get paid just to teach the bright ones, they are supposed to teach them all.
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Old Dec 18th 2010, 3:58 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: Why disturb them?

OK, so here's another question for any christians who feel up to giving me a serious answer to a serious question.

I feel that the basic tenet of christianity, as ascribed to Jesus himself, is the single finest instruction on how one should live ones life.

I refer of course to the saying by Jesus, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'

Now to me that is magnificent. Here is the alleged son of god telling us that we must give equal consideration to everyone. (Even Samaritans, dammit!)

We must not go to bed well fed while others go hungry. We must not indulge ourselves in luxury when that money would give health aid to so many suffering Africans. Oh yes, and sodomising children is RIGHT OUT.

So tell me. Christians of all stripes are supposed to do what Jesus says, right? So, if there are so many christians, then why are there so many people going hungry? I would have thought that the average christian household could take in at least one homeless person?

I passed on this conundrum to a practising christian I knew who was a decent guy, and not at all stupid.

His response was quite illuminating. He sighed and said "Yes, of course you are right, but in order for that to happen, christians will have to share their money, and there's no way that most of them would do that, is there?"

I guess we had better hope that in order to get into heaven, all is needed is a crude response. 'Yeah, yeah, Jesus, saviour, whatever. Where's the bar?'

Only, if god expects you to have demonstrated some serious effort to have truly LOVED your neighbours as yourself, then heaven's going to be very, very empty, isn't it?
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