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Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Old Oct 28th 2021, 1:46 am
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Default Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

I know since Brexit UK citizens have had to sort out residency etc in Spain in order to stay there legally, but my query, which I can't really find an answer to via Mr Google, concerns non-EU citizens.

If one is a non-EU citizen, and enters on the Schengen visa, thus getting 90 days in Spain, what happens at the end of the 90 days? I realise that one would become an over-stayer, but in reality, what happens? Do the Spanish authorities actually carry out any checks? Would they be likely to detect someone who has over-stayed their Schengen 90 days?
Or would one be able to work on the black, and avoid detection for months or even years?

Please no judgements on the morality of this, I am not supporting the idea of over-staying, I am genuinely curious as to whether it would be possible for someone to stay in a Spanish city indefinitely without detection, working cash in hand.

Cheers guys
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 5:20 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Hola,
Yes of course it is in theory possible. In practice, there is a "Stop & Search" type routine in most countries where the fact could be uncovered. Most probably you are more likely to be stopped in a car, but all countries have ways to stop illegal immigrants

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Old Oct 28th 2021, 5:26 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Sure it's possible. Plenty of UK people have not legalised their stay in Europe since Brexit.

Indefinitely is not a certainty though.....
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 5:43 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Thanks! Sounds like in theory then someone could get away with it for quite some time, specially if they are a non driver. Bit of a shame in sioe cases where it would be nice to see justice done!
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 8:25 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Thanks! Sounds like in theory then someone could get away with it for quite some time, specially if they are a non driver. Bit of a shame in sioe cases where it would be nice to see justice done!
If you are getting wound up about the idea of overstayers enjoying all the same privileges as everyone else, well maybe you could consider justice as being done in that a person who is in a country illegally doesn't normally have any of the same rights as those who are there illegally.
Normally they have no entitlement to healthcare, social security or financial support if they need it. In some countries it's difficult for them to find accommodation, open a bank account, buy a car etc. If they need to earn money they're likely to be exploited. They can't leave the country and come back. There's the insecurity of knowing that if they attract the attention of the authorities in any way, the game is up. All they are "getting away with", really, is being in a country they shouldn't be in. Presumably they feel that being in Spain even with no rights, is better than being in their home country. Which is sad.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
I know since Brexit UK citizens have had to sort out residency etc in Spain in order to stay there legally, but my query, which I can't really find an answer to via Mr Google, concerns non-EU citizens.

If one is a non-EU citizen, and enters on the Schengen visa, thus getting 90 days in Spain, what happens at the end of the 90 days? I realise that one would become an over-stayer, but in reality, what happens? Do the Spanish authorities actually carry out any checks? Would they be likely to detect someone who has over-stayed their Schengen 90 days?
Or would one be able to work on the black, and avoid detection for months or even years?

Please no judgements on the morality of this, I am not supporting the idea of over-staying, I am genuinely curious as to whether it would be possible for someone to stay in a Spanish city indefinitely without detection, working cash in hand.

Cheers guys
Agree with ET. Political refugees being excepted, non-EUs overstaying their 90 days in any EU country with the intention of staying put illegally, would live with the insecurity of being found out. They would have to stay healthy, not have an accident (hospital- and police-wise), be housed by a landlord who knows their status and is likely to exploit the fact, be exploited by an employer who illegally accepts workers on the black, the list of potential miseries is long and, as ET says, it's sad if such a person prefers them to living in their home country.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 9:32 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

You would also not be able to leave the Schengen area and come back again.

In fact I'm wondering what would happen if you DID decide to fly outside of Schengen and went through passport control at the airport (which only happens when you fly outside of Schengen). Is there a possibility that instead of proceeding to board your flight you would be taken into custody, made to stay several hours or overnight, fined, banned from re-entering the EU Schengen area for many years, and then virtually frogmarched onto a different flight as a deportee?
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 9:57 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by astera View Post
You would also not be able to leave the Schengen area and come back again.

In fact I'm wondering what would happen if you DID decide to fly outside of Schengen and went through passport control at the airport (which only happens when you fly outside of Schengen). Is there a possibility that instead of proceeding to board your flight you would be taken into custody, made to stay several hours or overnight, fined, banned from re-entering the EU Schengen area for many years, and then virtually frogmarched onto a different flight as a deportee?
If you try to go through passport control and your papers are not in order it's vanishing unlikely that you will be allowed to go on your way as if nothing was. That is what border control is for, to check that everyone's papers are in order before they are allowed to cross the border.
I guess it would depend on whether you'd overstayed by a few days or by a long time and what the circumstances were, but certainly you could expect to be fined and banned from entering Schengen again for a period (though I doubt it would be many years unless you had seriously overstayed). Not sure about the frogmarching bit - if you are already leaving of your own accord and have paid for your travel, there is no need for a formal deportation process is there.
Of course there is border control at the international ports as well, not only at airports.
I think you would have to be a bit stupid to attempt it without weighing up the potential consequences of making the trip, and not making it.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 10:32 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

If you are British, not resident in an EU state and you overstay in the Schengen area you will be caught when you leave.

These are the rules:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...ace-penalties/

Some UK nationals will go underground and never leave the Schengen area but they run the risk of being caught and deported.

Welcome to Brexit.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Málaga and Alicante airports have gates in which you pass through. If your travel entitlements have expired, it's likely you will be buttonholed and deported at your own expense. It's likely other big airports have the same gates. You are taking a chance if your paperwork is not in order and you always will be looking over your shoulder.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 10:40 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
If you try to go through passport control and your papers are not in order it's vanishing unlikely that you will be allowed to go on your way as if nothing was. That is what border control is for, to check that everyone's papers are in order before they are allowed to cross the border.
I guess it would depend on whether you'd overstayed by a few days or by a long time and what the circumstances were, but certainly you could expect to be fined and banned from entering Schengen again for a period (though I doubt it would be many years unless you had seriously overstayed). Not sure about the frogmarching bit - if you are already leaving of your own accord and have paid for your travel, there is no need for a formal deportation process is there.
Of course there is border control at the international ports as well, not only at airports.
I think you would have to be a bit stupid to attempt it without weighing up the potential consequences of making the trip, and not making it.
Many variations of overstayers. They could be people that have lived under the radar for years under the old membership of EU rules. If they are how do the border officials know how long they have stayed as they would have no entry stamp? Do they just accept what the overstayers says or investigate? Where does overstayer go while being investigated? They issue a fine? Probably in the form of fixed penalty or do they demand the fine payment there and then as how could they follow up if not paid given any Spanish address would not be suitable as they wouldn't be allowed back certainly until situation legalised. I could see the whole thing being very messy in reality, it may be simpler to say you've overstayed passport etc stamped accordingly to show this get out don't come back unless you are legally entitled and issue an on the spot fine.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
If you try to go through passport control and your papers are not in order it's vanishing unlikely that you will be allowed to go on your way as if nothing was. That is what border control is for, to check that everyone's papers are in order before they are allowed to cross the border.
I guess it would depend on whether you'd overstayed by a few days or by a long time and what the circumstances were, but certainly you could expect to be fined and banned from entering Schengen again for a period (though I doubt it would be many years unless you had seriously overstayed). Not sure about the frogmarching bit - if you are already leaving of your own accord and have paid for your travel, there is no need for a formal deportation process is there.
Of course there is border control at the international ports as well, not only at airports.
I think you would have to be a bit stupid to attempt it without weighing up the potential consequences of making the trip, and not making it.
Cant answer for what Spain are doing or not to British overstayers. But I can tell you what happened to a Canadian workmate of mine.

In 2017 we went on a job to France and my workmate (who was a contractor) said he was going on holiday and I was just giving him a ride (he came from Canada to the Uk and we drove through the Chunnal).
After sorting the job in France I returned to the Uk and he travelled around the EU ending up in Spain. He stayed here for around 4 months and then decided to travel back to Canada as we were planned to do an installation there a couple of months later.

At Madrid airport he was taken aside and asked why he had overstayed his 90 day visa. He basically said that he was having a great time and the weather was better than at home (-30 compared with +20).
All they did was scan his passport, stamp it on the out date with a nice red stamp and escorted him on the plane back home to Canada.
Fast forward to 2019 and he was going to visit us while we were here for a holiday (hadn't moved over then)

When applying for his travel visa online, it was refused and told him to contact the Spanish Embassy in Toronto. He did and was told that he had a 3 year ban from the whole of the EU.
He still keeps in touch and once the ban is up he will be visiting us.

So no fine just a ban.

I would imagine that the Spanish authorities would look at each case individually and make a decision.
Can you imagine someone who has lived here for years under the radar (and I know of at least one couple who still have not bothered because they could not meet the requirements we had to last year) and has no address in the Uk being banned from re-entry to Spain for 3 years????

Now whether the UK would stop them from travelling and then they were turned around in Spain is another matter. You don't need a visa to leave a country, just to enter.

Ive had shed loads of work visa's over the years and NONE have been checked on the way out of the UK. Ive watched as they look at my passport. (not even when travelling about 2 months after 9/11 to the USA with a current Saudi work visa taking up 2 pages of my passport) was asked loads of questions at the other end but hey ho...

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Old Oct 28th 2021, 11:01 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by bobd22 View Post
Many variations of overstayers. They could be people that have lived under the radar for years under the old membership of EU rules. If they are how do the border officials know how long they have stayed as they would have no entry stamp?
Well the fact of having no entry stamp, would be grounds for assuming, unless they can prove to the contrary, that their most recent entry into the country predated 1.1.21. Because if they'd entered on or after 1.1.21, they should have an entry stamp. On that assumption, as of the end of October they could potentially be treated as having overstayed by at least 7 months.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by Barriej View Post
Now whether the UK would stop them from travelling and then they were turned around in Spain is another matter. You don't need a visa to leave a country, just to enter.
Why would the UK stop them travelling? What have visas got to do with it? Brits don't need a visa in any case to visit Spain.
It would be entering Spain that would be the issue, if there is an issue at all.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 12:10 pm
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Default Re: Visa over-stayers, how does Spain react to them?

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Well the fact of having no entry stamp, would be grounds for assuming, unless they can prove to the contrary, that their most recent entry into the country predated 1.1.21. Because if they'd entered on or after 1.1.21, they should have an entry stamp. On that assumption, as of the end of October they could potentially be treated as having overstayed by at least 7 months.
Yes that's one way of looking at it and probably the simplest way of dealing with it. As I say there are a number of differing types of overstayers. I would guess ease of dealing will be main concern and as someone stated earlier stamp passport showing overstayed ban for x period of time from entering Schengen zone. Could be very awkward if one has been in EU for years under the radar and has no place to live in the UK. One could say we won't leave Schengen zone but then situations could arise that scuppers that plan. Personally I prefer to be right side of the rules/law come and go as allowed. I'm sure over time we will hear in the news/media how this is dealt with, no doubt claiming its the EU picking on Brits 😉
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