British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Unexpected additional residency requirements (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/unexpected-additional-residency-requirements-913863/)

snikpoh Jun 16th 2018 2:31 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Pilou (Post 12516998)
You need to find a business, like selling things or in my case translator.
In the beginning we thought we could become autonomo by renting out 1 or 2 houses, but that is not possible. That is seen as investment income. Only when you do B&B or renting out with holiday services.
When your income is zero quarter after quarter, you might have a problem. But not necessary that you earn 1000 EUR/month! We asked our gestor and he thought +/- 400 EUR/month is ok.

This was my experience too. I have holiday lets and long-term rentals - I was NOT allowed to be autonomo!


Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12517000)
Sorry that is just misinformation!
I have a perfectly good autonomo business renting out my properties for holiday lets and no one cares if you make an income, so long as you keep up with the social security payments and file zero returns paying your accountant.

Like @Pilou I was also NOT allowed to be autonomo based on 6 long-term lets and 2 holiday lets. It certainly is NOT misinformation - it's his and my experience.


Maybe it all depends WHERE like so much else in Spain.

Smithy73 Jun 16th 2018 10:49 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by snikpoh (Post 12517051)
This was my experience too. I have holiday lets and long-term rentals - I was NOT allowed to be autonomo!



Like @Pilou I was also NOT allowed to be autonomo based on 6 long-term lets and 2 holiday lets. It certainly is NOT misinformation - it's his and my experience.


Maybe it all depends WHERE like so much else in Spain.

Probably the timing - I did this a year ago..
Now as part of the tourist license if you have 4 or more holiday lets, it must be run as a business.

Smithy73 Jun 16th 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by IanWorthington (Post 12517049)
Thanks guys. Some stuff to mull over there.

@Smithy73: Why do you think it's best do do private insurance for the first year rather than paying the autonomo fee? The later looks significantly cheaper.

Why how much is your health insurance?
I used La Caixa and a medium level product with no Co payments. The only difference with the top level product was that you could choose the consultant that you saw etc.
€59 a month and I am 44.
So unless you plan to start a business, I would have thought paying for health insurance for the first year and then apply to pay into social security for health care at €60 a month until you are 65

snikpoh Jun 17th 2018 6:09 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12517188)
Probably the timing - I did this a year ago..
Now as part of the tourist license if you have 4 or more holiday lets, it must be run as a business.

Maybe but as I only have 2 I still wouldn't qualify!

Lynne2302 Jun 18th 2018 3:01 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
Hello. We needed to produce proof of full health insurance with no co-payments but I had two exclusions on mine and that was accepted. Twelve months worth of bank statements for our English bank account plus three months worth for our bank in Spain showing money moving into it from our English bank account. It appears that different rules for different parts of the country apply and, of course, what the person on the desk at the time wants to see.

Fred James Jul 3rd 2018 12:16 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
It appears that the government are about to give full healthcare to everyone resident in Spain.

https://www.thinkspain.com/news-arti...thin-six-weeks

rafter5 Jul 4th 2018 2:59 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
What did it cost to hire a Gestor?

bobd22 Jul 6th 2018 12:34 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by rafter5 (Post 12526906)
What did it cost to hire a Gestor?

As always depends which Gestoria you use, better to simply speak to a few to get cost and decide how you feel about them personally.

VeganAdventurer Jul 13th 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
We want to leave the UK and because we speak some Spanish, Spain would be ideal but it's really complicated. More so than neighbouring Portugal which we have been leaning towards. We want to live off-grid, grow our own food and be self-sufficient as possible. I've worked on a farm and my partner still does so we know it's possible. This argument about what is "sufficient funds" has been driving me mad. I found this on the UK gov website that states what is considered sufficient is linked to the minimum income you have before you can claim benefits:

ii. have sufficient resources, for themselves and their family members, not to become a burden on Spain’s social assistance system during their period of residence. Proof of the possession of sufficient resources, whether from regular income, including work income or income of another kind, or from ownership of assets, will be given by any legally admissible evidence, such as property deeds, certified cheques, documentation proving that income from capital is received or credit cards. In this latter case, an up to date bank certificate proving the amount available by way of credit on the aforesaid card shall be produced. The assessment of sufficient resources must be carried out on an individual basis, taking into account the applicant’s personal and family circumstances. The possession of resources that are more than the amount established each year by the State General Budgets Act “Ley de Presupuestos Generales de Estado” that justifies the right to receive non-contributory benefits, taking into account the interested persons’ personal and family circumstances, will be regarded as sufficient proof to meet this requirement

Smithy73 Jul 14th 2018 6:08 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by VeganAdventurer (Post 12532528)
We want to leave the UK and because we speak some Spanish, Spain would be ideal but it's really complicated. More so than neighbouring Portugal which we have been leaning towards. We want to live off-grid, grow our own food and be self-sufficient as possible. I've worked on a farm and my partner still does so we know it's possible. This argument about what is "sufficient funds" has been driving me mad. I found this on the UK gov website that states what is considered sufficient is linked to the minimum income you have before you can claim benefits:

ii. have sufficient resources, for themselves and their family members, not to become a burden on Spain’s social assistance system during their period of residence. Proof of the possession of sufficient resources, whether from regular income, including work income or income of another kind, or from ownership of assets, will be given by any legally admissible evidence, such as property deeds, certified cheques, documentation proving that income from capital is received or credit cards. In this latter case, an up to date bank certificate proving the amount available by way of credit on the aforesaid card shall be produced. The assessment of sufficient resources must be carried out on an individual basis, taking into account the applicant’s personal and family circumstances. The possession of resources that are more than the amount established each year by the State General Budgets Act “Ley de Presupuestos Generales de Estado” that justifies the right to receive non-contributory benefits, taking into account the interested persons’ personal and family circumstances, will be regarded as sufficient proof to meet this requirement

Your right it is complicated - It's made worse by each foreigners office doing their own thing and seemingly having there own ideas on the matter.
In each area, what is seen as sufficient resources seems to differ greatly too!
Wanting to live off the grid I think is commendable, but I would advise that you are going to need funds available to go through the residency process and until after we know what is going to happen with Brexit.
I can only advise from my experience of doing this in the Gandia area of Valencia.
The civil servant at the foreigners office at the police station, was only interested in seeing "sufficient resources" in a Spanish bank account and title deeds of a house in the area. They are suppose to take money in a UK bank account, into a count... but primarily they want to see the funds in a Spanish account.

I had the same issue when I was researching this for our application back in 2016 - I sent the above text from the UK.Gov site to my lawyer and she had a good laugh. They certainly will not take credit available on a credit card, as a form of sufficient resources!
Basically they are looking for 3 months activity into your Spanish bank account, showing that an income has been paid into the account, preferably monthly.
If you own property in the local area and can provide the title deeds to this, that will help. Otherwise they will be looking for the Spanish bank balance and monthly income payments to reflect the added cost of renting etc.

It is much easier if you are a pensioner. They wanted to see a €6000 balance and your pension paid in, had to be at least €600 a month.
A valid S1 form, as a pensioner gives you the healthcare requirements.

Unfortunately if you are of working age, in Gandia they want to see rather more coming in. Here a balance of €10000 and €1000 a month seems to do it, if you own a property here or €15000 euros + the rent + €1000 if you don't.
Also you need private heathcare with no co payments, as you need to show you have the same health cover as provided by the Spanish health system, without being a burden on the health system etc!

They don't even call it sufficient resources in the interview, it's about proving an income.

gwineth Sep 7th 2018 1:52 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
We want to move to Spain in December 2018 so are cutting the deadline very thin.
Ok I understand that bank certificate is needed and a health insurance certificate, but is it possible to have a bank health insurance which pays out a discount of say 20% of bill
and we have to find the rest' because we have had an insurance estimate for two people ages 72yrs and 78 yrs respectively and the quote was 850€ per month! no way can we afford to pay that sort of money.
Plus is it still possible to produce an S1 certificate or are they taking the view that will no longer be available once we leave the EU?
Also if we were registered as non-resident would the requirements be the same and if we are allowed to stay 90 days how long do you have to leave the country before you return?

bobd22 Sep 7th 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
I assume you mean health insurance for residency? What is acceptable does vary by region but many insist that the full amount is covered without any co payments. You need to know what region you want to live and then enquire. As for the 90 day rule that resets if you leave Spain for one day including an overnight stay. However it is not something strongly enforced CURRENTLY nor do you register the days anywhere. You do not need to wait for 90 days to apply for residency you can apply the day you land if you intend making Spain your permenant residency. So given your age you could apply for S1 and arrive with it in order to get residency. Obviously time is ticking by. Here's a link re the S1 with info and telephone number I would ring them and get full information .https://contactcentreservices.nhsbsa...o-i-obtain-one

Smithy73 Sep 7th 2018 2:42 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by gwineth (Post 12559906)
We want to move to Spain in December 2018 so are cutting the deadline very thin.
Ok I understand that bank certificate is needed and a health insurance certificate, but is it possible to have a bank health insurance which pays out a discount of say 20% of bill
and we have to find the rest' because we have had an insurance estimate for two people ages 72yrs and 78 yrs respectively and the quote was 850€ per month! no way can we afford to pay that sort of money.
Plus is it still possible to produce an S1 certificate or are they taking the view that will no longer be available once we leave the EU?
Also if we were registered as non-resident would the requirements be the same and if we are allowed to stay 90 days how long do you have to leave the country before you return?

Co payments are generally not acceptable (in most regions at the foreigners office) - so the insurance document most not state this etc. If you have the S1 form this should be fine!
I think the idea is, that on a hard Brexit or an agreement that doesn’t include free movement of travel, you may need to apply for a visa or there will be a visa free period - so a 90 day holiday, visa free etc and then return home to the UK for 90 days - ie the stamp in the passport is 90days out of 180.
No one really knows at the moment, until they either come to an agreement or not.
Best to assume at the moment that things will be different and if you wish to live here, sort it out ASAP.

So for example, at the Gandia foreigners office, as pensioners (assuming you own a property) they are looking to see at least €6000 balance in your Spanish bank account, a pension of at least €600 a month, plus the S1 form etc
You will also need a Padrón Certificate, the tax form paid and stamped, your passport, 2 passport sized pictures and 2 photocopies of everything!




All times are GMT. The time now is 7:25 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.