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-   -   Unexpected additional residency requirements (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/unexpected-additional-residency-requirements-913863/)

IanWorthington Jun 12th 2018 9:18 pm

Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
Had my appointment for my residency visa today and got hit with TWO additional and undocumented requirements:

1. Medical insurance has to be a policy WITHOUT copays.
2. You have to have an established bank account showing movements for at least 3 months.

Anyone seen that before?

Smithy73 Jun 12th 2018 9:55 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by IanWorthington (Post 12514842)
Had my appointment for my residency visa today and got hit with TWO additional and undocumented requirements:

1. Medical insurance has to be a policy WITHOUT copays.
2. You have to have an established bank account showing movements for at least 3 months.

Anyone seen that before?

Yes the bank account must be a Spanish one and you must be able to show an income into your Spanish account over 3 months.
For example in Gandia they want to see around 6000euros in the account and a minimum income of 600euros per person per month.
I got the bank manager to produce me a certificate from the bank for the residency application, only showing the total amount in the account and the income over the 3 months previously.

Yes my lawyer advised us of this 2 years ago. You have to prove that you have a complete medical cover for the first year at least. Which means no part payments made by you for medical treatment and a one year policy that gives you access to a doctors surgery and hospital treatment if needed.

Smithy73 Jun 12th 2018 10:08 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
Just checked out your previous posts... You need to show income into a regular Spanish bank account - they have no interest in UK savings accounts etc

It's an administration check box task and you need to play the game if you want to succeed.

If this were me, I would pay 10000euros into my Spanish current account and then on the same date each month pay 1200euros in, with a reference of "Ian Worthington Salary".

Your bank should then be able to produce you a bank certificate for residency process that only shows the total amount and the "income"

If you own property, taking the title deeds to the next residency appointment would help. If you are renting, perhaps the example income above is not going to be enough! Depends on your rent if applicable etc

Smithy73 Jun 12th 2018 10:15 pm

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by IanWorthington (Post 12514842)
Had my appointment for my residency visa today and got hit with TWO additional and undocumented requirements:

The problem is that none of the requirements are documented and they are different in each region!

My Lawyer was particularly helpful, as her husband is a police officer and he could check what was required.
Also the bank manager rang his friend at Gandia police station to check what was required from the bank etc.

A good Gestor should be able to walk you through this process and go with you!

snikpoh Jun 13th 2018 7:28 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12514900)
The problem is that none of the requirements are documented and they are different in each region!

My Lawyer was particularly helpful, as her husband is a police officer and he could check what was required.
Also the bank manager rang his friend at Gandia police station to check what was required from the bank etc.

A good Gestor should be able to walk you through this process and go with you!

You say that but everywhere mentions at least these two requirements;

(1) proof of health cover with no copays
(2) proof of sufficient income and/or savings

Fred James Jun 13th 2018 8:47 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12514900)
The problem is that none of the requirements are documented and they are different in each region!

The reason for that is that the law (Spanish and EU) specifically says that the definition of sufficient resources cannot be a fixed amount.

Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources", but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned.

With regard to health cover the only rule is that it must be "Comprehensive". That is open to interpretation and the worst case interpretation is no copayments and no exclusions for pre-existing medical conditions.

snikpoh Jun 13th 2018 8:49 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 12515080)
The reason for that is that the law (Spanish and EU) specifically says that the definition of sufficient resources cannot be a fixed amount.

Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources", but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned.

With regard to health cover the only rule is that it must be "Comprehensive". That is open to interpretation and the worst case interpretation is no copayments and no exclusions for pre-existing medical conditions.

Our local extranjeria DOES allow co-payments - so it all depends who is on the desk and where you go.

Smithy73 Jun 13th 2018 8:52 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by snikpoh (Post 12515061)
You say that but everywhere mentions at least these two requirements;

(1) proof of health cover with no copays
(2) proof of sufficient income and/or savings

Sure, but where does it state what they see as sufficient income?!

The UK Gov website - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residenc...ments-in-spain suggests that any health cover equivalent to the NHS, with a certificate covering Spain for the duration of your residency and then they even suggest a credit card statement showing funds available might be sufficient!!!

Which in my experience couldn't be further from the truth!!
The documentation needs to be in Spanish - So the health certificate needs to be in Spanish, showing cover for 1 year with no co payments etc
They want to see income into a Spanish bank account only! How much depends on the region!
They have no interest in what you may have in a UK bank account

Smithy73 Jun 13th 2018 8:59 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 12515080)
The reason for that is that the law (Spanish and EU) specifically says that the definition of sufficient resources cannot be a fixed amount.

Member States may not lay down a fixed amount which they regard as "sufficient resources", but they must take into account the personal situation of the person concerned.

With regard to health cover the only rule is that it must be "Comprehensive". That is open to interpretation and the worst case interpretation is no copayments and no exclusions for pre-existing medical conditions.

Sure I get that.... but for instance they have VERY clear ideas on what minimum they want to see in your bank account in Gandia! I was told that for 2016 it was 6000euros in the account MINIMUM and income of 600euros per person per month as pensioners!! Which we are not... so then really how much do they want to see coming in, if you are of working age?

mikelincs Jun 13th 2018 9:00 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12515088)
Sure I get that.... but for instance they have VERY clear ideas on what minimum they want to see in your bank account in Gandia! I was told that for 2016 it was 6000euros in the account MINIMUM and income of 600euros per person per month as pensioners!! Which we are not... so then really how much do they want to see coming in, if you are of working age?

Only one way to find out, and that is to ask.

Smithy73 Jun 13th 2018 9:04 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12515092)
Only one way to find out, and that is to ask.

My lawyer did... they couldn't tell her! The only guidelines were for pensioners
She said for Gandia, the more the better!

Fred James Jun 13th 2018 9:07 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12515088)
Sure I get that.... but for instance they have VERY clear ideas on what minimum they want to see in your bank account in Gandia! I was told that for 2016 it was 6000euros in the account MINIMUM and income of 600euros per person per month as pensioners!! Which we are not... so then really how much do they want to see coming in, if you are of working age?

Yes, local offices can have very clear local rules but there is no law to back it up. As I said the law is deliberately vague on this point which is why different areas differ in their interpretation of it.

Smithy73 Jun 13th 2018 9:12 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 12515101)
Yes, local offices can have very clear local rules but there is no law to back it up. As I said the law is deliberately vague on this point which is why different areas differ in their interpretation of it.

:goodpost: OK I get what you are saying
I just think it is a shame that they can't at the local office tell you what is expected at your forthcoming appointment.
If I am from the US or elsewhere outside of the EU, they are very clear on what sufficient income is!

Moses2013 Jun 13th 2018 9:24 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 

Originally Posted by Smithy73 (Post 12515104)
:goodpost: OK I get what you are saying
I just think it is a shame that they can't at the local office tell you what is expected at your forthcoming appointment.
If I am from the US or elsewhere outside of the EU, they are very clear on what sufficient income is!

The rules are pretty clear and it's all on your Europa website. Rights and obligations:
  • For stays of under three months: the only requirement for Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country.
  • For stays of over three months: EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period.
  • Right of permanent residence: Union citizens acquire this right after a five-year period of uninterrupted legal residence, provided that an expulsion decision has not been enforced against them. This right is no longer subject to any conditions. The same rule applies to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have lived with a Union citizen for five years. The right of permanent residence is lost only in the event of more than two successive years’ absence from the host Member State.
  • Restrictions on the right of entry and the right of residence: Union citizens or members of their family may be expelled from the host Member State on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Guarantees are provided to ensure that such decisions are not taken on economic grounds, comply with the proportionality principle and are based on personal conduct, among others.
.

Smithy73 Jun 13th 2018 9:25 am

Re: Unexpected additional residency requirements
 
Two years ago this was all news to me... I had read as much as I could on the internet and then my lawyer kept throwing curve balls.

For example she would say, "have you paid any money into your bank account...?" my reply would be no... there's sufficient in there for the next few years and I can show further funds from my UK account.... Then she enlightened me LOL
My attitude was money is money and this is the EU, what difference if it's in the UK...
The reality was, they are not interested at the appointment... documentation must be in Spanish as they don't speak English and proof of income must be from a Spanish bank.


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