missile

I don't understand why Spain want that useless piece of rock?

Fredbargate

Simple, it's the only bit of the Iberian peninsular that runs at a profit.

Mind you Spain would quickly put paid to that

snikpoh

I haven't read the entire thread but;

I can't understand why UK want's that useless piece of rock either.

Dick Dasterdly

I can't understand why Spain wants it.

Having turned the whole of their own country into a basket case, are they too embarrassed to see one tiny corner of Iberia outside their control showing how it should be done ?

amideislas

Aside from the horrible and immoral tax savings Spaniards get from putting their money there, I have to reckon it's just what's on the tin:

Fisherman's unions probably just want the fishing rights. Sound petty? well, yes, but squeaky wheel...

EnglishPatriot

Plenty of Spaniards avoid tax by putting their money in Ceuta and Melilla, but of course, that's different.

Domino

as there seem to be so many Spanish fishermen who are complaining about loss of income
perhaps now is the time to buy a boat cheaply, register in Gib and go out daily fishing their old waters.
I know where I can get a crew from and we could rename Little BE

IamStu

I like your thinking Domino!
Isn't it true that Spain have been a problem fishing illegally in British waters for years. I remember seeing news reports when I was a kid.
What's interesting though is when I listen to Spaniards talking about this.
They genuinely feel, rightly or wrongly, that they've been robbed.

Fredbargate

Because their leaders have brainwashed them into believing this.

When you look at some of the other aspects of Spain, corruption, the lack of legal redress, blatant racial discrimination I find it amazing that they are still allowed to be members of the EU.

This though probably is a pointer to the honesty of the EU itself.

EMR

Fred you describe the Spain of the last 600 years, it is a country that was the last fascist dictatorship in Europe, one that fought a brutal and viscious cival war only 75 years ago. To expect it to adopt anglo saxon moral and political views in less than 50 years is over optimism in the extreme.
On my first trip to spain, the obligatory lads holiday, there were beggars and lottery sellers in the streets who received NO government aid because they had fought on the loosing side.
I think that many of those who knock anything Spanish have little knowledge of its history and how far it has come since the dark days of Franco.
Improsonment without trial and torture were methods practiced by his regime almost up to his last days.

As far as Gibraltar is concerned they are not brainwashed they genuinely believe it.
Just as you do when it comes to the Treaty of Utrecht.

amideislas

I agree with this. All true.

Unfortunately, it doesn't change the way the things are and likely will be for the foreseeable future. But it is slowly getting better.

I think one positive aspect of the current mindset is that Spain continues to resist EU fluffy bunny policies, which IMO would only lead us further into the abyss - especially when framed within a traditional Spanish mindset.

One downside is that Spain continues to engage in petty nonsense that benefits nobody (or only benefits a handful of nepotic insiders). But that's just tradition, I reckon.

Spain should do what's truly best for Spain, not model itself after some sort of anglo-saxon mindset, nor presume the anglo-saxon mindset is somehow against their best interests. I fear the Gibraltar debate has far more to do with what the Spanish (rightly or wrongly) perceive to be in their best interests, but unfortunately within the mindset of the traditional petty nonsense that ends up benefiting nobody. "Just because".

EnglishPatriot

I find it ironic how you so clearly revile Franco and right wing politics and yet you support Spain over Gibraltar.

It was Franco himself who pretty much started the modern day hatred towards Gibraltar, mostly as a means of unifying the country and directing attention away from his government's issues.

In flying Spanish flags whenever Gibraltar is mentioned and actively engaging in aiming hatred and bile at Gibraltar, you are doing your bit to keep Franco's legacy alive and kicking in modern Spain.

EMR

I do not support Spain nor do I unreservedly support the silly actions and comments of the Gibraltarian ministers.
To me they are as bad as each other.
I have little time for those Brits who wave the flag and live in a tax haven or work in the gambling industry.If their lives are incovenienced I will not lose any sleep over it.
There is an interesting article in the Sunday Times about some of the real loonies who inhabit UKIP, they could have been talking about you as I suspect you share many of their views.
Your last paragraph is as close to being Francoist/Fascist as it possible to be.
Just change the words from Spanish Flag to the Union flag and Gib for Spain.
With such views calling your self an English Patriot is an insult to every reasonably minded resident of the UK who would want to distance themselves as far from you as they could.
Your knowledge of history is also pitifull. Spain has never accepted the loss of Gibraltar you are partly right referring to Franco because his was the first firm government of a unified Spain in 200 years. He could actually do something to affect Gib. He was also instructed by Hilter to do what he could to make life as difficult as possible for the allies.
It is interesting that the US our great friend stood back and let Franco do what he liked due to his anti communist policies and the US need for its bases in Spain.

jackytoo

EMR you are a bit obsessed by UKIP aren't you. I don't think UKIP is a big player in the Gibraltar issue

rugbymatt

They even implied, a while ago, that I was a UKIP supporter... A simple search might have given him all the information they needed.