Re: Train development news
 

I for one am happy to know that the AVE that is paid for by all of us, is infact going to be an "activity" that is enjoyed by the yuppies ect, and pensioners who are on 5k a month for a couple. (NOT)

I hope they are grateful to the poorer elements of society for their contribution, and their continued support for the running of AVE.

Re: Train development news
 

If anyone really wants to read current Spanish comments on the train system, including standard lines as well as high speed (rather than a 2012 article Aggy mentions). there is a lively forum here.

http://www.tranvia.org/

Re: Train development news
 

Umm, the poorest people getting paid 5k per month by the state have not contributed any of their money to the AVE, or even to the 5k of benefits that they are receiving each year

If they had contributed, then they would be receiving the minimum state pension of around 9k per year, each..

The poor are not subsidising anybody, and never have. Do you need amideislas to tell the bar anecdote again? :D

Re: Train development news
 

Yes, and the comments that the AVE has meant the closure of their old service, Talgo etc, trying to force them onto the much more expensive AVE. Not surprisingly, coach travel has increased a lot since the introduction of the AVE.
"Y sin alternativa, antes había trenes que salían de Valls y Tarragona, pero ya se ancargaron de cargárselos para eliminar la competencia."

Re: Train development news
 

you two are just being silly now. I repeat that I bought 2 tickets each way for me and my hubby (Seville to Madrid and back) for 97 euros. I realise that some people are living on next to nothing and can't afford any trains at all so Ave or no Ave it makes no difference..I'm on a VERY limited income myself and this was a business expense for me and as such makes really good sense at a third of what I was paying a year ago.
Some people THINK it's expensive. Or just open their mouths and let it all come pouring out without even thinking :p 97 Euros for 4 journeys of 500KM. That's just shy of 5 cents per KM. in comfort plus no parking charges in Madrid (or in Seville either play your cards right). And 2 free films and 4 pairs of useful headphones!! How much do you pay to drive your car per KM per person?

Re: Train development news
 

I didn't say it was expensive, or cheap. just pointing out what others were saying. Last time we went Malaga-Madrid we looked at AVE fares and it was cheaper by about £40 to fly. Seems ok if you can book months in advance and certain times. I can't imagine us ever booking so far ahead just to take a train journey!

Re: Train development news
 

No, nor me! If you are that organised that you can predict what you'll be doing in a few months time and pick off peak etc of course fares are reasonably priced. Even the crazy prices they charge in UK are affordable using that criteria. If I want to fly to Spain cheap and don't mind being at the airport for 4am and get back in the early hours of the morning, no surprises that it's cheaper than flights at a reasonable time. I choose sensible flight times every time and prepared to pay the extra cost.

Re: Train development news
 

I have to wonder just how many ppl. if any, would be using Ave if all the punters were charged a realistic fare in relation to both the running costs and outlay ?

In comparison Ryanair have all those multi million dollar aircraft to pay for, in addition to covering their daily running costs and making a profit.

If Ave had to be run on a similar commercial basis I would guess that all the fares would be in the hundreds of euros at least and they'd be left with even more empty trains and stations than they already have now.

By cutting many fares to unrealistic levels that at least some punters can afford, they can, as we can see here, fool at least some of the ppl.for some of the time, though in fairness the vast majority of the population have obviously not allowed the wool to be pulled over their eyes with regard to the many shortcomings of this economically disastrous project.

Re: Train development news
 

I do not have a problem with railways running at a loss. I doubt if there is a profitable railway in the world.
What I don't understand is the amount of money spent on the AVE that could be put to better use. ie improving/expanding existing routes.

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You mean investing in old technology that doesn't gain export contracts like Saudi/Turkey/Kazahkstan/Russia?

And btw, the cost of the new Alicante AVE link (given the Valencia to Madrid link via Albacete was already in place) was in the region of 1.9 billion.
The upgrade of the convential west coast line in the UK was in the region of £9 billion - and that was several years ago!

Re: Train development news
 

I have no idea of the answer but am sure you do.

How much has the AVE cost to construct and what revenue does it recover after operating costs are taken into account?

Why bring in UK rail costs?

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Pointing out that it's not cheap to upgrade old routes - and especially if you try to replicate old, slow technology. You just wouldn't get the funds to do it in many cases.
And btw, it's not true that local services have not been improved during this time. The cercanias and tube networks have been improved in many cities, including Madrid, Bilbao, Zaragoza and Valencia.

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Even before the new fare structure introduced this year (that has increased passenger numbers by a substantial amount) the AVE link was already taking passenger share away from the airlines on the Madrid-Barcelona route - which obviously would not have happened with the old 7 hour journey.

http://i1.minus.com/ibb4tDuPsvHeNT.png

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Just out of interest Steve did Spain have a Standard gauge like UK or were there various standards. If they did have a standard how does that compare to the gauge for HST in the rest of Europe and why does AVE need to change gauge at Barcelona for trains to France?

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You do not appear to have answered my question. What is the cost of the AVE and what is the return? Or to put it another way, how much does it lose per passenger mile.