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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10772113)
You can argue with O'Leary that cheap can't be profitable if you like. Love him or hate him he's disproved your angle on that one!
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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10772116)
I One day this rail system will be the envy of the world. I think they *will* rival Ryanair for passenger transport within Spain. Creating infrastructure, jobs promoting business and therefore future wealth for the country.
As I have said before I believe in creating infrastructure but the amount spent on the AVE could have been put to better use. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772527)
All this because I said that by the time the train comes into its own, people will not desire a more sedate form of transport, as the users will be of the instant generation.
For every oldie that is up to date with modern technology, there are 10 that are not, and anyway that is not what I was saying. and you have to turn it all off when on a plane, so you are actually off-grid for 2-3 hours :frown: what you have tried to do is tell us "oldies" that we have given birth to a new "super wunderkind"
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772468)
........the 40 and 50 somethings of the next generations are already born.
They will have been brought up at a hectic speed. Their whole lives are not based on "sedate", in fact quite the opposite. They text with lightning speed, in the shortest from possible "C U 2moro, dnt b l8" because it is quicker. and that despite
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772468)
........
The use calculators and computers in school, again because it is quicker.
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772468)
........
So "desirous of a more sedate means of transport" I don´t think so. That is for the oldies......and the world does not cater for the oldies anymore. :rofl: ` |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 10772591)
have u tried 2 use contact media when driving a car?
and you have to turn it all off when on a plane, so you are actually off-grid for 2-3 hours :frown: what you have tried to do is tell us "oldies" that we have given birth to a new "super wunderkind" and yet really they aren't any brighter, just more and more reliant on little black boxes to do work for them and that despite but no matter how fast they punch the numbers they have forgotten that accuracy is needed and also an idea of what the end number should look like. hence so many inaccuracies in answers. meanwhile "oldies" can look at a set of numbers and have an idea of what sort of answer they are looking for and be "multi-tasking" by using their dual process brain and have the final number confirmed by a machine. oh dear, so all the oldies are to be carted off in cattle trucks to the knackers yard - bet even that would be by train. :rofl: ` |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772825)
You really do exaggerate...............and I have said nothing of the sort.
never said nothing of the sort :confused: got to go, must make sure I get a good place on the knackers yard special :thumbup: kind regards to the OH |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10772468)
Do you really think so ?
The days of leisurely travel are gone, people of a certain age may hanker for it, but the 40 and 50 somethings of the next generations are already born. They will have been brought up at a hectic speed. Their whole lives are not based on "sedate", in fact quite the opposite. They text with lightning speed, in the shortest from possible "C U 2moro, dnt b l8" because it is quicker. The use calculators and computers in school, again because it is quicker. There are more and more meals that you bung in the microwave of just add boiling water to. They are hooked to the mobiles, because they need to get an instant response from the tweet/text they have just sent. They buy on line, and will do so more in the future, because it is quicker and less hassle. The family trip for new shoes for the children will be a thing of the past. Populations will be used to a fast pace of life from the moment they are born, and will not be able to break that habit, and would not want to either. So "desirous of a more sedate means of transport" I don´t think so. That is for the oldies......and the world does not cater for the oldies anymore. I encounter all ages on the Ave. Loads of young musicians, artists writers businessmen and women and interesting people use a form of transport that gives them time to think creatively. Those who when they actually do get to be 'old has beens' will be much happier to have that on their tombstone than to be a young 'never will be' who knows how to text ultra fast and how to 'diss' the people he/she doesn't understand and never will;) |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10772583)
When is one day?
As I have said before I believe in creating infrastructure but the amount spent on the AVE could have been put to better use. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10772116)
I refer the honourable gent/lady to the answer I gave some moments ago. You've answered your own question. They will come...They are coming. One day this rail system will be the envy of the world. I think they *will* rival Ryanair for passenger transport within Spain. Creating infrastructure, jobs promoting business and therefore future wealth for the country.
There are always naysayers. But they are naysayers on many subjects. Those who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those who are doing it! It must be remembered that O'Leary can and does switch routes at the drop of a hat in order to remain profitable whilst in total contrast AVE have built stations and routes costing Billions, many in the middle of nowhere, that are already being abandoned due to lack of use and atrocious planning and can never be any other but a total loss. "Envy of the world" :rofl: hardly. The system is likely to be obsolete long before completion having already been in use in Germany for well over twenty years with development elsewhere such as in Japan already making it look like old hat. As for the punters eventually turning up, ......well not according to the experts, with present stats from routes it has been running for a while showing that the exact opposite is the case. Once the novelty value and initial excitement wears off, which looking at the long faces and protests on the last opening has already done so, the available figures from earlier routes show a distinct drop off in numbers within approx. two years, with punters presumably going back to whatever mode of travel is most convenient and cost effective in their own areas. Even considering the best scenario projected figures, it can never run anywhere close to being profitable, at best only carrying a fraction of the numbers who regularly use the French, German and Japanese systems. In short, a catastrophe of the highest magnitude with close on 50 Billion already down the plughole and likely to rise to 80 Billion plus, all to write off in addition to daily losses. Little wonder that much of the Spanish general public who will be struggling through the crisis for years ahead are disgusted that funds they could surely have put to much better use are still being thrown into a virtually bottomless pit. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
(Post 10773046)
Just a shame they didn't have somebody as smart as O'Leary to both plan it and cost it all out and they may have avoided the catastrophe that much of it is already proving to be.
It must be remembered that O'Leary can and does switch routes at the drop of a hat in order to remain profitable whilst in total contrast AVE have built stations and routes costing Billions, many in the middle of nowhere, that are already being abandoned due to lack of use and atrocious planning and can never be any other but a total loss. "Envy of the world" :rofl: hardly. The system is likely to be obsolete long before completion having already been in use in Germany for well over twenty years with development elsewhere such as in Japan already making it look like old hat. As for the punters eventually turning up, ......well not according to the experts, with present stats from routes it has been running for a while showing that the exact opposite is the case. Once the novelty value and initial excitement wears off, which looking at the long faces and protests on the last opening has already done so, the available figures from earlier routes show a distinct drop off in numbers within approx. two years, with punters presumably going back to whatever mode of travel is most convenient and cost effective in their own areas. Even considering the best scenario projected figures, it can never run anywhere close to being profitable, at best only carrying a fraction of the numbers who regularly use the French, German and Japanese systems. In short, a catastrophe of the highest magnitude with close on 50 Billion already down the plughole and likely to rise to 80 Billion plus, all to write off in addition to daily losses. Little wonder that much of the Spanish general public who will be struggling through the crisis for years ahead are disgusted that funds they could surely have put to much better use are still being thrown into a virtually bottomless pit. As you point out, Ryanair´s business plan, can be changed at the drop of a hat, routes can be cancelled and others opened according to the travel habits of the customers. As soon as a route becomes unprofitable or charges are increase, OLeary waves hasta luego, with the minimum of fuss. Not so with an unprofitable or little used rail service, not so easy to alter it to the public supply and demand. Good post. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10773006)
Ahh we have an economic genius in our midst. Do tell!
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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10773314)
You do not have to be a genius, just realistic.
:confused: once the die was cast the project has to run through to completion, it would be madness to stop all the partially prepared lines, such as the Valencia-Antequerra via Granada. It is easy to be a genius after the event, it is easy to jump on an anti-rail bandwagon when the country is endeavouring to keep the project going and keep people employed rather than lay off thousands of direct and indirect workers involved in the project. ` |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 10773398)
It is easy to be a genius after the event, it is easy to jump on an anti-rail bandwagon when the country is endeavouring to keep the project going and keep people employed rather than lay off thousands of direct and indirect workers involved in the project.
` All I am saying is those thousands of people laid off (resources) could be employed on expanding other transport projects, road and rail, that would, in my opinion (if you would allow me to have one), be more beneficial. In the region that I have a house there is no coastal rail link from Alicante through Benidorm/Denia and on to Gandia thus providing a link from Alicante to Valencia via a coastal rail route. This, in my opinion, would be a better use of resources. I also suspect that this region is not alone in currently being under-served by rail. Is yours? |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10773773)
I am neither a genius or anti-rail.
All I am saying is those thousands of people laid off (resources) could be employed on expanding other transport projects, road and rail, that would, in my opinion (if you would allow me to have one), be more beneficial. In the region that I have a house there is no coastal rail link from Alicante through Benidorm/Denia and on to Gandia thus providing a link from Alicante to Valencia via a coastal rail route. This, in my opinion, would be a better use of resources. I also suspect that this region is not alone in currently being under-served by rail. Is yours? yes my region is underserved by rail, although I do have the privelege (?) of having to put up with the roadworks relating to the new AVE line construction - which will eventually link up with the east coast, but no work has started that I have seen. At the moment we have enough problems with 2 alternative stations, one of which involving massive disruptions, digging holes and tunnels. However, the local council leader has now come down on the side of regenerating the existing station - a move towards sanity, which will help to regenerate a partially neglected area of the city centre that is already comitted to having a metro stop. The problem is not just Spain's, but an EU problem. This is due to their transport policy which is funding large swathes of rail build as part of transport re-generation, for the movement of freight as well as people. So, if the EU was the prime mover/funder it is probably unlikely there would be the AVE. However, it is left to the individual country's of the EU to fund road building and repairs. Living in London you have the luxury of a number of railway stations, connected by underground, with lines radiating out from the hub. As you get further away from that hub you will find that more and more people are disgruntled about the money spent on rail whilst they want the potholes fixed in their village. Just like Spain. ` |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10773314)
You do not have to be a genius, just realistic.
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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10773773)
I am neither a genius or anti-rail.
All I am saying is those thousands of people laid off (resources) could be employed on expanding other transport projects, road and rail, that would, in my opinion (if you would allow me to have one), be more beneficial. In the region that I have a house there is no coastal rail link from Alicante through Benidorm/Denia and on to Gandia thus providing a link from Alicante to Valencia via a coastal rail route. This, in my opinion, would be a better use of resources. I also suspect that this region is not alone in currently being under-served by rail. Is yours? I have to agree with you there. The desperate need for a coastal link from Alicante to Valencia taking in the busy coastal towns and resorts in between, is something that has stood out like a sore thumb to my way of thinking ever since I moved into the area. It's so ridiculous when they are throwing money down the plughole on pointless vanity projects which in most cases aren't even needed and often remain virtually unused. |
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