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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10773909)
That's not answering the question. What are these other uses for the money which will create more growth, jobs etc?
There are so many old people who are not capable of living an independant lifestyle in their own home. However they are not in need of constant care, with some help from social services, a daily visit and a bit of help in the home would suffice. I have known 2 old people in the last few months, who tried to change the bombona in their homes and had an accident. One broke her hip, and was stuck in hospital for a good while. They can live alone, and are happy to do so, they have pensions but cannot afford to pay for help in the home. They have neighbours and friends that help out, but obviously the neighbours are not on hand 24-7, and quite often the person themselves don´t like asking for help too many times. If these people had "official" help that was awarded to them on a needs basis, then they would have no qualms about asking for a bombona to be changed, for example. I know a few people who were getting this type of help, but due the cuts, the visits have been cut back drastically or stopped. That seems so illogical to me, that a person who was getting help 2 years ago, does not get help now, when they are older and in most cases frailer. Instead of lashing billions away on unused airports, low use rail services, I for one would like to see a fraction of that money spent of looking after the people. Jobs would be created, just in a different way to railway jobs, but jobs all the same, which in my opinion would be more beneficial to the whole country. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10774038)
Social care, would be a good place to start.
There are so many old people who are not capable of living an independant lifestyle in their own home. However they are not in need of constant care, with some help from social services, a daily visit and a bit of help in the home would suffice. I have known 2 old people in the last few months, who tried to change the bombona in their homes and had an accident. One broke her hip, and was stuck in hospital for a good while. They can live alone, and are happy to do so, they have pensions but cannot afford to pay for help in the home. They have neighbours and friends that help out, but obviously the neighbours are not on hand 24-7, and quite often the person themselves don´t like asking for help too many times. If these people had "official" help that was awarded to them on a needs basis, then they would have no qualms about asking for a bombona to be changed, for example. I know a few people who were getting this type of help, but due the cuts, the visits have been cut back drastically or stopped. That seems so illogical to me, that a person who was getting help 2 years ago, does not get help now, when they are older and in most cases frailer. Instead of lashing billions away on unused airports, low use rail services, I for one would like to see a fraction of that money spent of looking after the people. Jobs would be created, just in a different way to railway jobs, but jobs all the same, which in my opinion would be more beneficial to the whole country. The knowledgable people of Valencia decided to keep voting for Camps and co who were wasting and stealing billions of euros, now it is coming back to bite them. As we know, Spaniards love to keep voting in corrupt politicians who promise them the world... No new money has been spent by the Valencian government in the past few years, except for around 30 million for "saving" Valencia football club. Yes another great decision by Camps and Co Mixing national and local budgeting issues is misleading - which many people are doing here. AVE comes from national budget, local train services are decided at a local level. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10774090)
Mixing national and local budgeting issues is misleading - which many people are doing here. AVE comes from national budget, local train services are decided at a local level.
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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by Fredbargate
(Post 10774098)
The problem is though it is still the man in the street who's pocket the money comes out of.
For those of us who don't get the choice to vote, then we can only hope to influence those who do :) |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10774090)
As you know the Valencia region is bankrupt and has no money. Health care and social care is decided at the local level.
The knowledgable people of Valencia decided to keep voting for Camps and co who were wasting and stealing billions of euros, now it is coming back to bite them. As we know, Spaniards love to keep voting in corrupt politicians who promise them the world... No new money has been spent by the Valencian government in the past few years, except for around 30 million for "saving" Valencia football club. Yes another great decision by Camps and Co Mixing national and local budgeting issues is misleading - which many people are doing here. AVE comes from national budget, local train services are decided at a local level. In any event the need for a decent Alicante/Valencia link was very obvious long before he got his grubby nose in the trough. As for the once proud local football club and it's massive debts, my understanding is that it is now virtually owned by the Nokia bank which is in just as deep sh!t itself as just about everything else in the region. The new stadium was put on hold and their prospects don't look good now they've virtually been turned into a sellling club in order to finance some of their massive debt. |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
(Post 10774137)
Camps, well what more is to be said, other than someone please explain how he walked away a free man from his trial when he probably deserved to be put in front of a firing squad for the damage he did to the Valencian economy.
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Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10773773)
I am neither a genius or anti-rail.
All I am saying is those thousands of people laid off (resources) could be employed on expanding other transport projects, road and rail, that would, in my opinion (if you would allow me to have one), be more beneficial. In the region that I have a house there is no coastal rail link from Alicante through Benidorm/Denia and on to Gandia thus providing a link from Alicante to Valencia via a coastal rail route. This, in my opinion, would be a better use of resources. I also suspect that this region is not alone in currently being under-served by rail. Is yours? |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10774038)
Social care, would be a good place to start.
There are so many old people who are not capable of living an independant lifestyle in their own home. However they are not in need of constant care, with some help from social services, a daily visit and a bit of help in the home would suffice. I have known 2 old people in the last few months, who tried to change the bombona in their homes and had an accident. One broke her hip, and was stuck in hospital for a good while. They can live alone, and are happy to do so, they have pensions but cannot afford to pay for help in the home. They have neighbours and friends that help out, but obviously the neighbours are not on hand 24-7, and quite often the person themselves don´t like asking for help too many times. If these people had "official" help that was awarded to them on a needs basis, then they would have no qualms about asking for a bombona to be changed, for example. I know a few people who were getting this type of help, but due the cuts, the visits have been cut back drastically or stopped. That seems so illogical to me, that a person who was getting help 2 years ago, does not get help now, when they are older and in most cases frailer. Instead of lashing billions away on unused airports, low use rail services, I for one would like to see a fraction of that money spent of looking after the people. Jobs would be created, just in a different way to railway jobs, but jobs all the same, which in my opinion would be more beneficial to the whole country. people only remember the vanity projects - win or lose. They are the things that go on the CV for the next election, usually with promise to resolve social matters next time round (but manana never comes) social services in most countries are the poor relation, those who need the help for changing the bomba are the ones who are left to rely on family help and support (unpaid, unrecognised). They are also the ones who die of cold because the help they do get is sparse and uncaring (usually because of budgets and cost cutting.) But how many jobs would be created for local people when the majority of them are going to those from outside Spain and the EU - especially after a few years such carers are entitled to residency. Just see the number of careres in Spain who are from outside the EU, walking the elderly, pushing wheelchairs, collecting medicines etc. And how many of them actually have any form of training to do the job properly ?? ps - but what has this got to do with Train Development News ?? although could be an interesting subject for discussion elsewhere (i.e. PDT) |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10774090)
As you know the Valencia region is bankrupt and has no money. Health care and social care is decided at the local level.
The knowledgable people of Valencia decided to keep voting for Camps and co who were wasting and stealing billions of euros, now it is coming back to bite them. As we know, Spaniards love to keep voting in corrupt politicians who promise them the world... No new money has been spent by the Valencian government in the past few years, except for around 30 million for "saving" Valencia football club. Yes another great decision by Camps and Co Mixing national and local budgeting issues is misleading - which many people are doing here. AVE comes from national budget, local train services are decided at a local level. Someone has decided that a good use of development budgets would be to improve the entire countries transport infrastructure for the future and this is what we are discussing here. I agree with them in part. Don't forget that much of the figures quoted in the costs flow right back into the coffers as income tax on the personnel and IVA. I would also invest heavily in regenerating the solar panel manufacturing industry here in Spain. but that's another thread perhaps. How would each of us regenerate industry in our new country if we had the reins of power. Since we know by now, surely, that service industries don't actually create wealth...just shuffle it a bit. Manufacture and infrastructure produces wealth and therefore improvements in lifestyle for all. This thread is about whether the rail infrastructure is a good investment.. and perhaps about whether the Ave is a better or worse investment than local transport links. Personally I think we need both. Another thing is that our generation/s (most of us on here ;-)) had it easy. Lived on the hard work and investment in infrastructure of the Victorians. (transport sanitation etc.) and have left very little for the future. Now we're crying about how we'll manage as old people and expecting those who come after us to care for us when we want to leave them nothing. That's just my little rant for the day ;) |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by angiescarr
(Post 10775300)
Another thing is that our generation/s (most of us on here ;-)) had it easy. Lived on the hard work and investment in infrastructure of the Victorians. (transport sanitation etc.) and have left very little for the future.
Now we're crying about how we'll manage as old people and expecting those who come after us to care for us when we want to leave them nothing. That's just my little rant for the day ;) For every person that is rich, many need to live in poverty. That is the way the capitalist sytem works. Poor people pay with their labour to satisfy the whims and needs of the rich. What we are seeing now is a breakdown of borders, where the rich have no nationality. If things continue as they are going then there will simply be a minority rich and majority poor across the world, and a poor Chinaman will live a similar life to a poor Spaniard or Brit. There will be no minimum guarentees in health, education or housing |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10775336)
Yes that is true - but dont forget that the Victorian government and elite were incredibly rich because they had one third of the world as colonies. All the income from those lands got poored back into the UK and London in particular
For every person that is rich, many need to live in poverty. That is the way the capitalist sytem works. Poor people pay with their labour to satisfy the whims and needs of the rich. What we are seeing now is a breakdown of borders, where the rich have no nationality. If things continue as they are going then there will simply be a minority rich and majority poor across the world, and a poor Chinaman will live a similar life to a poor Spaniard or Brit. There will be no minimum guarentees in health, education or housing |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 10775336)
Yes that is true - but dont forget that the Victorian government and elite were incredibly rich because they had one third of the world as colonies. All the income from those lands got poored back into the UK and London in particular
For every person that is rich, many need to live in poverty. That is the way the capitalist sytem works. Poor people pay with their labour to satisfy the whims and needs of the rich. What we are seeing now is a breakdown of borders, where the rich have no nationality. If things continue as they are going then there will simply be a minority rich and majority poor across the world, and a poor Chinaman will live a similar life to a poor Spaniard or Brit. There will be no minimum guarentees in health, education or housing Do you have a house or a flat, do you have enough food, do you feed a family, does your kid go to school ? Do you drive a car, do you have enough to pay the electric bill and the telephone and your internet bill ? Where did you get all this money ? Describe your poverty or tell us who you are oppressing ! |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by notacontrathinker
(Post 10775422)
So which one are you ?
Do you have a house or a flat, do you have enough food, do you feed a family, does your kid go to school ? Do you drive a car, do you have enough to pay the electric bill and the telephone and your internet bill ? Where did you get all this money ? Describe your poverty or tell us who you are oppressing ! |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by binguezbingo1
(Post 10775529)
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Since the Spanish law came out in 2012 Expat's living in Spain can no longer play on their favorite bingo sites in the UK. Well we want to introduce ourselfs to you. Binguez is part of the UK's top leading bingo sites such as Foxy Bingo and Cheeky Bingo. So we have that English streak that helps makes us one of the best Spanish bingo sites around. The best thing is that all our CM's speak English, and allthough we dont speak English in the chat, All you have to do is ask the CM for a private chat and we can talk you through anything you need to know, from chat games, to helping you deposit, or even just for a chit chat! You can also meet and chat away on here to us CMs or other players. Join in, leave your comments, or tell others about your expirience in Binguez! |
Re: Train development news
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 10775535)
you really are persistant:rofl:
oh well, after a bit of excitement back to waiting for the next AVE, subject to the line being laid round here, still got a couple of bridges to build yet. :fingerscrossed: |
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