Just a shame they're in such short supply at the moment, though the way things are going I'd have thought that anyones contribution would be more than welcome in these desperate times.

You have a great skill at misintepreting everything, are you amideislas' not-so-evil twin?

Who said expats arent welcome? If you want to make a contribution then get on board, judge it for yourself! The AVE is very comfortable and a great experience, you can eat well, watch a movie, walk around, do some work on the computer etc, very comfortably.

I have also been on the tilting train to Manchester which does about half the speed of the AVE and it is incredibly uncomfortable, especially since I paid £200 for my ticket and there were dozens of people standing in the aisles!

Ha ha,nice one Cman.
Pleased to see you have a sense of humour after all.

Now pray tell me why I need to sit on a train like a zombie doing all the things you mention that I've only just left behind at home, when there is so much more to take in and enjoy on a leisurely journey between the same two points A and B taking the scenic route, stopping as and when I wish and sticking my nose in where its not wanted as I wish, appreciating the countryside and mixing with the locals to find out what makes them tick.

Whyever would I want to pay through the nose to miss out on all that fascinating Spanish culture Cman, simply to travel like a zombie from one concrete jungle to the next, though being a bit of a townie yourself, possibly you'd never fully comprehend.

Lots of the Spanish think the same, or maybe it's simply the costs that prevents them from using the AVE. Presumably they carried out feasibility studies on all these lines, how come they never predicted the Toledo-Cuenca-Albacete line would average 6 passengers a day? Of course, it's no longer operating. Some experts did try to tell them that most of the lines would be a complete waste of money. http://suite101.net/article/la-renta...ratados-a58971

Why does Aggro always choose to confuse the word "line" with "service"? There are AVEs that serve Albacete, Cuenca and Toledo - indeed the Toledo-Madrid service is very well -patronised and you are advised to book ahead if you use it. Sorry, Agro , but AVEs will be calling at Toledo, Albacete and Cuenca for many years to come. Quoting a cross country test service that didn't meet the market is as relevant as saying all UK rail services are badly taken up because the Coventry to Nottingham service was cancelled!
But don't take my word for it, listen to what the UK rail forum tells us!
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=51297

Well this is fun!

I really did not want to come back into this debate, but it's interesting to note that the slow uncomfortable train you refer to was FULL.

Sorry, train spotters only.

What's your point?

That driving and catching a train in the UK is infinitely slower, more expensive and more stressful and uncomfortable than in Spain?

Then I agree

I'm not sure what that proves other than the British travelling public will put up with anything and pay high prices for the privilege. I used to have to travel on that service a few times every month (didn't have the luxury of being able to use off-peak services) and it was a nightmare. One of the last journeys I made (memorable for all the wrong reasons) was on the hottest day of the year (2006) - temperatures maybe up to 30C, well under what a lot of Spain experiences for months on end in the summer with no such problems for the railways. Speed restrictions had been imposed which meant that every other service was cancelled, leaving half as many trains to carry the same number of passengers. People were crammed into every available space. The air conditioning in my carriage was broken. The refreshment trolley couldn't be used because there was no room. The buffet car ran out of bottled water half an hour into a 3 hour journey.

I've used the AVE and AVANT services in Spain several times and they are an absolute pleasure by comparison, and the ones I've been on were well used. The last occasion was a Madrid-Valladolid service leaving Madrid about 11.30 am, again not a peak time journey, and the train was about 75% full.

I agree, one of the pleasures of travel on Spain´s trains is that it is so peaceful. Recently travelling on Virgen between Manchester and London, I was reminded at every stop to take my belongings and report any unattended baggage. Do they think we are idiots? And what does unattended baggage look like when it is all piled up at the ends of the carriages? If they are that worried about terrorism why don´t they scan the bags.

There, I have managed to stay on subject and not offend anybody....???::

The point is that Spain is stony broke, yet still happy to lose money hand over fist on a prestige train service thats unlikely ever to pay for itself.

Maybe they should use some of the empty rolling stock as luxury accomodation for some of those poor sods getting chucked out of their homes onto the streets.

I don't know but what is the frequency of the Madrid Valladolid service?
It's easy to fill trains if there is a limited service.

I happen to believe that the rail system in the UK is much better than it's given credit for when you consider both its coverage and frequency.

According to the Renfe website, 29 services each weekday from Madrid to Valladolid. A mixture of train types too, AVE, AVANT, Intercity, Alvia and others. So they don't seem to be exactly stuck for options. As the fares for the AVANT service I was on are higher than most others, people are obviously prepared to pay. They didn't all look like business travellers either, hardly surprising at that time of day.