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Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

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Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

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Old Aug 1st 2024 | 5:46 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by BristolUK
And you know this how?
Reeves herself and various independent commentators, e.g. the IFS, stated that the public finances were transparent. The IFS, Sunak and others also stated that Labour would increase taxes to meet their spending commitments, who insisted:

‘We have fully costed, fully funded plans.”

“Nothing in our plans requires any additional tax to be increased.”

“… fully funded and fully costed – no ifs, no ands, no buts … no additional tax rises”.

Further, the biggest component of the alleged black hole is caused by Labour’s decision to award above inflation pay increases to the public sector, which they knew wasn’t forecasted.

It simply isn’t credible that Rachel Reeves, who styles herself an experienced, competent economist, was unaware of the public finances after years as Shadow Chancellor and months knowing she would soon be Chancellor. There were “no ifs, no ands, no buts” because she knew the state of the finances, otherwise the “no additional tax rises” would have been subject to finding nothing untoward in the accounts.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 7:05 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by tdrinker
There were “no ifs, no ands, no buts” because she knew the state of the finances, otherwise the “no additional tax rises” would have been subject to finding nothing untoward in the accounts.
She says she didn't because it was hidden. Or covered up was the phrase she used. Her predecessors (a variety of them in a variety of positions) have been shown to be very deceitful. Why would this be any different?

I think some people are just following that old idea that politicians are all the same and not to be trusted. Something put about by people who have an interest in maintaining the status quo.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 9:09 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by BristolUK
She says she didn't because it was hidden. Or covered up was the phrase she used. Her predecessors (a variety of them in a variety of positions) have been shown to be very deceitful. Why would this be any different?

I think some people are just following that old idea that politicians are all the same and not to be trusted. Something put about by people who have an interest in maintaining the status quo.
Rachel Reeves said before the election:
“We've got the OBR now. You don't need to win an election to find out about the public finances.”

The IFS and International Monetary Fund, having the same access to the finances that Reeves had, said Labour’s plans didn’t add up and there was a funding gap.

Labour themselves inadvertently revealed the plan, here’s a pre-election article quoting Labour sources:

““Rachel has between 10 and 12 measures she is looking at which she hasn’t yet announced …”

“… the shadow chancellor wanted to take a “kitchen sink” approach in order to raise tax income …”

but “That is not what they are presenting the public with right now.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ublic-services
This is the Starmer playbook. He stood for the leadership of the Labour party on a Corbynite policy platform, then ditched it after the election. He stood in the general election on a "no additional tax rises" platform and ditched it after the election. Starmer and Reeves are the status quo – politicians who make commitments to get elected, then break them. Although it usually takes for than a fortnight.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 9:20 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by Lou71
As others have said, unfortunately it's not full scale freedom of movement, it's a youth mobility scheme. I hope it happens because it's particularly useful for Spanish language students on sandwich courses and it will mean they can work while studying. I have met so many Spanish people over the years who have benefited from freedom of movement and I worked with a lot of young Spanish and Portuguese lawyers when I worked at an international city law firm in London.
The discussed plan an obvious benefit for young in the UK- only a Brexiter would be in favor of reducing opportunities for the young.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 11:57 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by tdrinker
Rachel Reeves said before the election:
“We've got the OBR now. You don't need to win an election to find out about the public finances.”...

but “That is not what they are presenting the public with right now.”.
I assume you're familiar with the concept of something being covered up? As in believing in something but then uncovering something new? I mean the idea of covering something up is to prevent it becoming known is it not?

If this "missing money" was so well known originally perhaps the Conservatives might have said "oops, we've lost a bit of money" before the election.
Or maybe there was a reason they wanted it hidden so said nothing. And of course if Labour really knew about it then it might have been a useful bit of information to focus on in an election campaign.

But nobody said anything about it. To me that suggests it was hidden with the side responsible keeping quiet to keep it hidden and the other side not knowing about it otherwise they would surely have used it.

 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 8:19 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by EU.flag
Intresting debate, but how is pension related to free movement original subject?
And it wasn't even free movement, just a youth mobility scheme of the type which the UK already has with other countries. But as soon as an EU country is mentioned, the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, etc... all owned by millionaire or billionaire non-doms, get to work.

Little wonder then, that many people in the UK didn't have a clue how the EU works before the Brexit referendum and still don't know how it works now.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 10:00 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by DLC
And it wasn't even free movement, just a youth mobility scheme of the type which the UK already has with other countries. But as soon as an EU country is mentioned, the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, etc... all owned by millionaire or billionaire non-doms, get to work.

Little wonder then, that many people in the UK didn't have a clue how the EU works before the Brexit referendum and still don't know how it works now.
Right wing newspapers bad, left wing newspapers good.

I can see that certain individual countries within the EU may want bilateral freedom of movement deals (for all or a certain demographic, e.g. young, retirees, etc.). But would the EU itself want individual member states making their own deals? As far as I know, the only current deals are between the UK and Ireland (dating from 1922) and involving micro states (Andorra, Monaco and San Marino).
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

All newspapers are bad, just some more then others.

EU is not a police state. Each EU state has full control over its national immigration laws and can setup "free movement" to anyone it wants, but will be only within its borders, not EU wide.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 10:42 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by Fred James
Yes, it was ridiculous to give it to all pensioners. Effectively they have not scrapped it, just means tested it which is what they should have done in the first place
My MIL has worked all her life is now 89 years of age
and has only a state pension, little savings and does not qualify for any benefits and has never been on or received benefits and this is a huge blow to her, yet a neighbour a few doors down has “swung the lead”
has hardly ever worked and certainly not the last 14 years lives in a council flat with all the triple glazed windows, solar panels central heating etc and never paid a penny now where is the fairness in that
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 10:51 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by tdrinker
Right wing newspapers bad, left wing newspapers good.
Daily Mail = Bad, full of hate
Evidence:
Spoiler:







Daily Express, Bad
Evidence
Spoiler:







Daily Mail - what it thinks of the law
Evidence:
Spoiler:








The Guardian = just as bad.
Comparable Evidence?
Spoiler:






What people think
Daily Mail - very untrustworthy 28% Daily Express 19%.
Guardian - 7%. BBC 10%

Add in ordinarily untrustworthy and you get
Mail - 47%, Express 39%
BBC 22%, Guardian 18%

Net scores? The difference between trusted and not trusted
Mail -37....That's minus 37. Express minus 31.
BBC +22...that's plus 22. Guardian +15.

Not Good vs Bad, not Left vs Right.
Just really bad vs much better. Unreliable vs more reliable. Untruthful/Misleading vs more honest.
A string of complaints/legal cases vs not many
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by brits1
My MIL has worked all her life is now 89 years of age
and has only a state pension, little savings and does not qualify for any benefits and has never been on or received benefits and this is a huge blow to her, yet a neighbour a few doors down has “swung the lead”
has hardly ever worked and certainly not the last 14 years lives in a council flat with all the triple glazed windows, solar panels central heating etc and never paid a penny now where is the fairness in that
Given that about a third of those who are eligible for pension credit are not claiming. are you sure your MIL does not qualify? Unless the 'little savings' is over £16000, with just the state pension, I would have thought it was worth another look.
 
Old Aug 2nd 2024 | 12:43 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by old.sparkles
Given that about a third of those who are eligible for pension credit are not claiming. are you sure your MIL does not qualify? Unless the 'little savings' is over £16000, with just the state pension, I would have thought it was worth another look.
That's a good point.
At 89 she'll have been of pension age for 29 years. There have always been differences between the basic state pension and whatever "top up" system has been in place but those differences are not always the same.

What may have put her at too much to qualify in 1995 may be different now.
Just in the last two years, the Pension Credit levels went up by more than State Pension rates, so someone who was just outside qualifying two years ago may qualify now.
 
Old Aug 2nd 2024 | 1:05 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by tdrinker
Rachel Reeves said before the election:
“We've got the OBR now. You don't need to win an election to find out about the public finances.”
Hmmm ...this is Richard Hughes, Chair of the OBR, giving evidence to a House of Lords Committee in January :
That is correct. You are right that the primary balance in the final year of our forecast, which forms the jumping-off point for those projections, is one of the reasons why, in the near term, debt looks relatively stable before it starts to rise again. That is based on at least two questionable policy assumptions that we are required to programme into our forecast. One is that fuel duty will be indexed to inflation every year. In fact, it has been frozen every year since 2010. That delivers £6 billion of the improvement in the primary balance. If that does not happen, you are already £6 billion down.

The second thing we are required to do is to rely on what the Government tell us are their desired paths for spending on public services, so departmental expenditure limits. At the moment, the Government have them falling as a share of GDP, but they provide almost no detail about how that will be delivered. The Government did a spending review setting out detailed departmental plans for the year until 31 March 2025. Beyond that, we know virtually nothing. It is just two numbers—one for total current spending and one for total capital spending by department.

Some people have referred to that as a work of fiction. That is probably generous, given that someone has bothered to write a work of fiction, whereas the Government have not even bothered to write down their departmental spending plans underpinning their plans for public services.
 
Old Aug 2nd 2024 | 1:21 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by Red Eric
Hmmm ...this is Richard Hughes, Chair of the OBR, giving evidence to a House of Lords Committee in January :
This proves my point; the forecast and the criticism of it were in the public domain, not hidden. Reeves, an experienced economist with a team of advisors, would surely use different assumptions in her "fully costed" plans if she disagreed with the government's ones.

And the biggest component of the alleged black hole was caused by Reeves decision to give above inflation pay awards to public sector staff.
 
Old Aug 2nd 2024 | 1:22 am
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Default Re: Starmer hatches new free movement plot with Spain

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I assume you're familiar with the concept of something being covered up? As in believing in something but then uncovering something new? I mean the idea of covering something up is to prevent it becoming known is it not?

If this "missing money" was so well known originally perhaps the Conservatives might have said "oops, we've lost a bit of money" before the election.
Or maybe there was a reason they wanted it hidden so said nothing. And of course if Labour really knew about it then it might have been a useful bit of information to focus on in an election campaign.

But nobody said anything about it. To me that suggests it was hidden with the side responsible keeping quiet to keep it hidden and the other side not knowing about it otherwise they would surely have used it.
 


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