Lou71

Having an Irish passport is a privilege, not something to be bitter and twisted about. It's you that seems to have a problem with the EU, not me.

The UK is no longer a member of the EU so how their member states conduct their affairs be it border control for third country nationals, not enforcing residency rules for EU nationals who stay in other EU states for long periods (referred to above by somebody) or otherwise is no longer the UK's concern.

dave7777

What you seem to be saying, perhaps I am wrong, is that How a UK citizen is treated at the EU border is none of the UK's concern? I assure you it is. Just as how an EU citizen is treated at the UK border is of concern to the EU (or individuals EU nation) As presumably a UK citizen, your dislike for the UK comes across very clear, as does your seemingly blind admiration for all things EU. Being an Ireland citizen is very much a privilege , but equally so is being a UK citizen.

Lou71

It's not about liking or disliking anything, it's about leaving the EU and then whinging onendlessly about how they conduct their affairs. Perhaps if the UK had sought a more constructive relationship with the EU when they had a seat at the top table, they could have had more influence in some of the decision making.

Unlike many on here, I'm not just thinking about myself and taking an 'I'm alright jack' view. I'm thinking of the millions of UK nationals (my partner included) who have lost freedom of movement through no fault of their own, like my British neighbours for example who are really struggling to find a way to move to Spain.

Not everyone selfishly thinks solely about their own situation, that mindset doesn't come naturally to me though I sometimes wonder why I bother.

Red Eric

Absolutely.

Both, which emphasises the advantage of the strength of belonging to a negotiating bloc.

dave7777

Very admirable. but you didn't answer my question about why UK citizens at the EU border isn't the UK's concern. And about whinging. nearly every other post you make on here is either whinging about the loss of FOM, or praising the EU. It is of course your right to believe whatever you wish to believe and think, but please understand that many UK voters don't care about people who wanted to leave the country, why would they? There was never millions of UK nationals who wanted to exercise FOM. Why didn't your neighbours move to Spain between 2016 and 2021? Its not as though they didn't know it was coming, they had ample warning. If your partner is in a stable relationship with you, an EU national, then he/she has the same rights as you, as you are well aware.

Lou71

I agree with you, but I doubt anyone else on here will.

dave7777

How does it? What does that have to do with UK or EU citizens being treated at borders?

Lou71

My neighbours could not move at that time because one of them had a life threatening illness.

Yes, my partner has rights as my very long term partner but it's not the same as having EU citizenship yourself as you know.

I might whinge about the loss of freedom of movement but I wasn't instrumental in taking it away from others while retaining it for myself.

You and I have different mindsets/values and are never, ever going to agree on anything so for the sake of this thread, I suggest we agree to disagree and leave it there.

Red Eric

I suppose this is part of a general problem in the UK - whenever membership of the EU is concerned, FoM becomes the main topic of conversation, as though that's the be-all and end-all of the EU.

It isn't, of course - it's an integral part of the framework for reasons that are almost never discussed. It most certainly isn't just about over-privileged people deciding to have a life in the sun, on the one side, or hordes of scroungers or low-wage aficionados on the other, which is what it's frequently made to appear in various quarters in the UK.

dave7777

He/She has exactly the same rights you do in the EU
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...EU%20nationals.

dave7777

Of course it isn't, i understand that. But the amount of people who exercised FOM, or even cared about moving to the EU is small. And, rightly or wrongly FOM inward is seen as a negative thing by many people in the UK .It was a big driver in the 2016 result.

Barriej

Totally agree here, almost all of my friends and colleagues in the Uk who voted leave didnt care about FOM in their favour, two weeks in Spain and maybe a quick stag do in Prague but move from the UK, are you mad? Why would we ever want to do that?????

None of them (and around possibly 60% plus of the Uk population who were eligible to vote) didn't either, it was in the ingress of others that they didn't want (rightly or wrongly).
Maybe the info was biased, but from when I was living Northampton there was a huge influx of eastern europeans who took all the lower paid jobs. I worked in a factory with over 500 staff 90% of whom were eastern european and below 30 and the company took buses to Latvia etc to bring them over (the UK government at the time (Labour) gave grants to do this).
There were many, many towns across the industrial parts of the UK the same.
Of course the common comment at the time (one I didnt like hearing, having lived and worked overseas) was "you cant tell them from us, it was Ok with the Africans, Indians etc cause you could tell they was foreign"
Obviously most of them had forgotten about the numbers of Commonwealth citizens who were free (although with some restrictions) to move to the Uk before it was in the EU and FOM was a thing, some people minded but most just accepted it (I hope).

If you were lucky to live in leafy surrey or one of the other home counties then you would not have seen it, except for when you went to the tearoom and the girl didnt understand what you asked for....

The figures from the UK suggest that only around 300,000 Uk citizens move abroad every year (so thats a small fraction of a percent of the current nearly 69 million) and thats emigrating worldwide.
So its reckoned about 50% of that figure moves to the EU so the figures are minuscule when added up. In fact its not even an argument or something the Uk is or will ever be bothered about.

At best most of my Uk friends think Im an idiot for wanting to live outside the UK... Thats Ok my decision (well maybe not) but its not a decision and wont ever be for the majority of British folks.....
Yes there were lots of other things lost because of Brexit and the government of the time should have negotiated better, but its over, done forget it and move on, because such a small number of people actually want to move, its never going to be high on anyones things to do before breakfast list.

For fun now and I did laugh. There is a group who are campaigning for the 180/365 to give swallows in the Uk (people with two properties) the rights to stay longer, just here in Spain though... How many do you think are in the Spanish group (these are Uk citizens who whan better access)??????

Go on I will wait...Oh ok 6000 yep that many and its been going a while...

So 69million people in the UK, Ok halve that for kids and old so and so's too frail to move, but more people vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party than have signed up for this...

But we have moved away (again) from the main purpose of this thread.
And for my 2c Spain will continue to ignore the laws they have and those rulings from the EU until they have no choice, I wouldn't hold my breathe for the ETIAS system working for a few more years and even then it probably wont be fit for purpose once its in place anyway.
Ive just checked and the timeline was due to be discussed in March this year. But I cant find an actual date for implementation anywhere (end of 2023 is not acceptable)
In case anyone is interested here is the details page (its all very vague)
​​​​​​https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/faqs-etias_en

dave7777

Totally agree. FOM might be high on the agenda of people on this forum. But back in the UK worrying about their loss of FOM is pretty much a non issue.

DLC

It's a non-issue until someone wants to travel for an extended period or study, work, or retire somewhere, or their job involves transporting goods, cross-border work, commuting, or visiting on-site to install or fix something. Then it becomes an issue, but of course as nothing was explained before the referendum apart from unicorns and rainbows it's too late now.

There's also an element of hypocrisy when the people who sold Brexit to the UK claiming the loss of FOM was something that only affected foreigners and the UK would still have the same or better access as it did when in the EU, then afterwards applied for the nationality of a country which has solid support for being an EU member to use their FOM rights to get around everyone's loss of rights brought about by Brexit.

dave7777

As previously stated by not only me, while it may effect people on this forum, the amount it effects in the UK is negligible. Rightly or wrongly FOM by many people is seen as inward and bad.