astera

It's a cult thing that was supposed to generate support among gullible, elderly folk that the gov't saw as a free way to "buy" their votes. Instead of giving them a better lifestyle/improving their standard of life (which requires £££)... just sell them hatred towards fellow Europeans.

Except that it wasn't free. There was of course a huge cost, but the party didn't have to foot the bill. The ENTIRE NATION did. Even the OBR made it clear that the damage caused by brexit will be greater than that caused by COVID-19. Let that sink in...

The UK and UE have reciprocal rules, and the only reason that they don't match in terms of days is that every side has set its own general rules for entry.

The UK lets all non-visa-requiring visitors in for 180 days, and that includes EU nationals.
The EU lets all non-visa-requiring visitors in for 90 days, and that includes UK nationals.

This is 100% reciprocal. Nobody is being discriminated against here in any way. If the EU were to raise that to 180 days for UK citizens then it would be giving them superior treatment, discriminating against everyone else... even though EU citizens would be getting nothing extra from the UK over other visitors.

Looking at the dire state of the economy the UK actually does need the money, but logic is not something you can apply to corrupt Tories who couldn't care less about people getting poorer as long as they can cling on to power. If Spain is looking the other way as tourists overstay in a moderate way... then that is quite a clever move.

DLC

The UK's guidance is maximum six months per visit, so someone could in theory visit for six months, leave for a month, then go back for another six months, but the second time they'd need to convince a border force agent on the way in that they're just a tourist.

The main problem, just for Britons, is Schengen rules don't last all winter. Ireland's rules last all year but it's not the same.

But the UK doesn't have the room in airports or the people to reciprocate Schengen rules and EU countries know that I'm sure.

astera

Back in the day the border force issued stamps in passports and then looked at those to see how many times (and when) someone has been entering the country.

Are they storing entry dates in a database nowadays, so that when someone arrives then can see their entire travel history on the screen?

Stingychips

I don’t know about that as when they check they examine the stamps. Also it would be possible for people to enter in one part of schengen and exit in another as the systems are not linked. So stamps are still important in tracking people in and out for now. Maybe one day there will be a state of the art next generation system which can track people coming in and out of a huge area like the schengen zone in real time.

Joppa

That's the purpose of EES (Entry Exit System) which is said to be introduced prior to ETIAS, now due in May 2025. Much delayed because of technical hitches. When implemented, that will replace stamping of passports for those not subject to Schengen visa.

Fred James

EES now scheduled for end 2024.

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023...ut-ees-and-eti

Lou71

Thanks for the link, it was interesting.

​​​​​​I really like the sound of EES. It's a fully integrated system so delays in implementation are inevitable.

I'm hoping that my EU resident British partner will be joining me in the EU national channel where hopefully there will be a manual booth as well as automatic gates.

astera

I actually meant the UK system. How are we able to tell if people are leaving for a day and then coming back in cases where they're not giving stamps?

Joppa

From what is happening now at external Schengen borders, I have my doubt if EES will speed up border formalities. While those with EU passport and presumably with ETIAS will just go through e-gate without further ado, those who are resident in EU and have residency documents such as TIE, carte de sejour, Aufenthaltserlaubnis etc will have to join a very long and slow-moving 'other' line together with visa nationals. My experience going through CDG with Spanish TIE was I nearly missed the connecting flight because of interminable delay. I somehow can't imagine France or any other Schengen country will create a line specifically for EU residents.

DLC

They get advance passenger information sent by airlines, ferry companies, and train companies, the same info you have to fill in before travel (name, nationality, passport number, birth date).

Joppa

Yes, there are those data but they are currently not systematically organised so that when you scan a passport, all such details will be instantly displayed on monitor. Plus API doesn't include your travel history, only the latest flight/ferry/Eurotunnel/Eurostar etc you have travelled on. Carriers only keep the data for 72 hours after your travel. UK is introducing similar system to Entry-Exit System in the next couple of years so it will be easier to track passengers in and out of UK.

DLC

This data is transferred to the Home Office though. If the Home Office is unable to do anything useful with it then it's a pretty poor system... and yet I'd be more surprised if it turned out they could do anything useful with it.

Lou71

EU nationals/residents will be exempt from both EES and ETIAS and therefore will not need to queue up for the various checks. I don't think EU residents will have a separate queue, I think they will probably queue with EU nationals but will have to go to a manual booth - there will always have to be a manual booth in case of any problems.

I agree that the non EU lane will be very slow moving once the new system is live.

Joppa

As I have said, it's up to each Schengen country to decide how to process EU residents at external border. Some will make it easy for them with minimum checks, others will lump them together with non-EU visa nationals for the simple reason that they have to be processed manually. The decision will partly depend on how many EU residents they have to deal with.

Fred James

It must be true if it comes from the Daily Mail!