Spain has not expelled any Brits!
May 14th 2023, 4:50 pm
#76
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Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 16,593
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
[...]What matters is that EU border crossing guards are not doing the job they are paid for and its allowing possible criminals, murders etc free movement.
The lack of proper checks when the UK was still in the EU allowed some serious criminals in as the FOM act states the following.
However, the directive does say “previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures”, but adds that convicted criminals can be excluded on a case-by-case basis if they present “a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society”.
But if you are not checking passports how do you screen and exclude people whom you deem to be undesirable????
The lack of proper checks when the UK was still in the EU allowed some serious criminals in as the FOM act states the following.
However, the directive does say “previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures”, but adds that convicted criminals can be excluded on a case-by-case basis if they present “a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society”.
But if you are not checking passports how do you screen and exclude people whom you deem to be undesirable????
The UK when in the EU never belonged to Schengen, so there was never a time when UK border officers didn't check passports even of arrivals from the EU*, or have the chance to run them against shared intelligence databases. Whether or not EU border guards are checking passports on entries to their territory has no bearing on that, does it? And even less so whether they are stamping them.
* Before some character pops up to tell us about the time they were waved through without anyone so much as looking at the outside cover, I know such tales abound. But the UK operated a hard border throughout membership even if they occasionally chose for whatever reason to look the other way. They also had (against the ethos of EU rules but OK'd because apparently it was all voluntarily supplied
) API, which meant they could check out individuals before arrival and probably wouldn't have waved through planeloads containing anybody they wanted to have a chat with.
Last edited by Red Eric; May 14th 2023 at 4:53 pm.
May 14th 2023, 4:54 pm
#77
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 953
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
Get a passport with a golden harp on the front cover!
Seriously though, I doubt many people are getting away with flouting the Schengen rules - it's a bit of a Brexit trope. Most of the stories are probably sour grapes from people who now realise how precious their EU freedom of movement was. Some might (and certainly should) have a pang of conscience after realising what they have inflicted on their fellow citizens so they are busy trying to downplay it and pretend it's not a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't risk getting caught and banned. Once EES/ETIAS are online it will be virtually impossible to overstay anyway.
Seriously though, I doubt many people are getting away with flouting the Schengen rules - it's a bit of a Brexit trope. Most of the stories are probably sour grapes from people who now realise how precious their EU freedom of movement was. Some might (and certainly should) have a pang of conscience after realising what they have inflicted on their fellow citizens so they are busy trying to downplay it and pretend it's not a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't risk getting caught and banned. Once EES/ETIAS are online it will be virtually impossible to overstay anyway.
Its not in and working and keeps getting delayed. It may not get implemented for another year. Nobody seems to know.
We are discussing current and past violations and the fact that Spain and its border staff dont seem to care about who they let in/out/shake it all about....
I can if you wish prove that overstayers from other countries other than the UK have had both fines and bans and can prove that people from the UK blatantly have not been fined or banned.
As to getting an Irish etc passport, that to me even if you are legally entitled to one is still a way to negate the rules of the EU. Which includes all those fellow Brits who didnt bother before 2021..
I can if asked prove that many Brits I know are only just swapping their driving licences (Ok you didnt have too) but come on after 2017 it must have been obvious that you had too.
In fact one acquaintance of ours allowed her UK licence to expire so she couldn't swap originally but is now able to.
Residency requirements are quite explicit YOU MUST REGISTER IF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS AND IF HERE MORE THAN 183 BECOME TAX RESIDENT because to me, someone who is of limited intelligence you are here more than there, so you must be resident in Spain....
But millions dont and I can prove this as well as a lady I know who now has her Irish passport has been here for the last nine months. Is she resident NO, is she planning to become NO, she returns to the Uk for hospital appointments and is supposed to be living with her daughter in the UK...
The French couple round the corner have been here 10 years and are still not resident...Do they plan too NO as its saving them thousands.
Yes the EU has freedom of movement but there are rules and people are not following them, not one or two Artful Dodger types but millions of ordinary people who probably get annoyed about foreigners coming over to 'their' country and living there illegally...
For everyones info I identify as a migrant, who packed up a van with all his stuff and drove here. Im not an expat as if so then all those thousands of Africans, Indians and Chinese etc that moved to the UK need to be referred the same.
But they are not and never will be so I am happy to be included with them.
May 14th 2023, 5:07 pm
#79
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,474
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
You keep banging on about ETIAS do you have shares in the company????
Its not in and working and keeps getting delayed. It may not get implemented for another year. Nobody seems to know.
We are discussing current and past violations and the fact that Spain and its border staff dont seem to care about who they let in/out/shake it all about....
I can if you wish prove that overstayers from other countries other than the UK have had both fines and bans and can prove that people from the UK blatantly have not been fined or banned.
As to getting an Irish etc passport, that to me even if you are legally entitled to one is still a way to negate the rules of the EU. Which includes all those fellow Brits who didnt bother before 2021..
I can if asked prove that many Brits I know are only just swapping their driving licences (Ok you didnt have too) but come on after 2017 it must have been obvious that you had too.
In fact one acquaintance of ours allowed her UK licence to expire so she couldn't swap originally but is now able to.
Residency requirements are quite explicit YOU MUST REGISTER IF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS AND IF HERE MORE THAN 183 BECOME TAX RESIDENT because to me, someone who is of limited intelligence you are here more than there, so you must be resident in Spain....
But millions dont and I can prove this as well as a lady I know who now has her Irish passport has been here for the last nine months. Is she resident NO, is she planning to become NO, she returns to the Uk for hospital appointments and is supposed to be living with her daughter in the UK...
The French couple round the corner have been here 10 years and are still not resident...Do they plan too NO as its saving them thousands.
Yes the EU has freedom of movement but there are rules and people are not following them, not one or two Artful Dodger types but millions of ordinary people who probably get annoyed about foreigners coming over to 'their' country and living there illegally...
For everyones info I identify as a migrant, who packed up a van with all his stuff and drove here. Im not an expat as if so then all those thousands of Africans, Indians and Chinese etc that moved to the UK need to be referred the same.
But they are not and never will be so I am happy to be included with them.
Its not in and working and keeps getting delayed. It may not get implemented for another year. Nobody seems to know.
We are discussing current and past violations and the fact that Spain and its border staff dont seem to care about who they let in/out/shake it all about....
I can if you wish prove that overstayers from other countries other than the UK have had both fines and bans and can prove that people from the UK blatantly have not been fined or banned.
As to getting an Irish etc passport, that to me even if you are legally entitled to one is still a way to negate the rules of the EU. Which includes all those fellow Brits who didnt bother before 2021..
I can if asked prove that many Brits I know are only just swapping their driving licences (Ok you didnt have too) but come on after 2017 it must have been obvious that you had too.
In fact one acquaintance of ours allowed her UK licence to expire so she couldn't swap originally but is now able to.
Residency requirements are quite explicit YOU MUST REGISTER IF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS AND IF HERE MORE THAN 183 BECOME TAX RESIDENT because to me, someone who is of limited intelligence you are here more than there, so you must be resident in Spain....
But millions dont and I can prove this as well as a lady I know who now has her Irish passport has been here for the last nine months. Is she resident NO, is she planning to become NO, she returns to the Uk for hospital appointments and is supposed to be living with her daughter in the UK...
The French couple round the corner have been here 10 years and are still not resident...Do they plan too NO as its saving them thousands.
Yes the EU has freedom of movement but there are rules and people are not following them, not one or two Artful Dodger types but millions of ordinary people who probably get annoyed about foreigners coming over to 'their' country and living there illegally...
For everyones info I identify as a migrant, who packed up a van with all his stuff and drove here. Im not an expat as if so then all those thousands of Africans, Indians and Chinese etc that moved to the UK need to be referred the same.
But they are not and never will be so I am happy to be included with them.
May 14th 2023, 5:10 pm
#80
Polished expat
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 16,593
May 14th 2023, 5:15 pm
#81
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,065
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
No, just pointing out that like all the best cults, the answer to some perceived failure in Brexit is always more Brexit instead of highlighting the essential pointlessness of the entire endeavour.
In this case the belief was the UK must make changes to reciprocate on Schengen 90/180 day rules even though it would probably just end up making life more difficult for British-European families and few other people.
In this case the belief was the UK must make changes to reciprocate on Schengen 90/180 day rules even though it would probably just end up making life more difficult for British-European families and few other people.
May 14th 2023, 5:15 pm
#82
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 953
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
I don't get this.
The UK when in the EU never belonged to Schengen, so there was never a time when UK border officers didn't check passports even of arrivals from the EU*, or have the chance to run them against shared intelligence databases. Whether or not EU border guards are checking passports on entries to their territory has no bearing on that, does it? And even less so whether they are stamping them.
* Before some character pops up to tell us about the time they were waved through without anyone so much as looking at the outside cover, I know such tales abound. But the UK operated a hard border throughout membership even if they occasionally chose for whatever reason to look the other way. They also had (against the ethos of EU rules but OK'd because apparently it was all voluntarily supplied) API, which meant they could check out individuals before arrival and probably wouldn't have waved through planeloads containing anybody they wanted to have a chat with.
The UK when in the EU never belonged to Schengen, so there was never a time when UK border officers didn't check passports even of arrivals from the EU*, or have the chance to run them against shared intelligence databases. Whether or not EU border guards are checking passports on entries to their territory has no bearing on that, does it? And even less so whether they are stamping them.
* Before some character pops up to tell us about the time they were waved through without anyone so much as looking at the outside cover, I know such tales abound. But the UK operated a hard border throughout membership even if they occasionally chose for whatever reason to look the other way. They also had (against the ethos of EU rules but OK'd because apparently it was all voluntarily supplied
) API, which meant they could check out individuals before arrival and probably wouldn't have waved through planeloads containing anybody they wanted to have a chat with.Gatwick was very quick to start using the Egates and all the biometrics do is check your face against the digital on on the chip. At busy times there could be well over 5000 waiting to go through I doubt that 1% of those passports were given anymore than a glance...
From 2012 to 2020 I flew in and out of Gatwick and Heathrow maybe three or four times a week and rarely saw anyone being stopped and asked to go to the desk for further questioning..
The Any other lane always had a queue..
Although this discussion is aimed at Spains lack of control, there must be other countries that are the same...
And thinking about it why were the staff not moved from the EU lanes (which at Alicante usually had 8 or 10 open every time I came through) and just move these staff to the UK lines. They were obviously not needed to man the EU passport lines were they???
How long does it actually take to open a passport, check and stamp it?
Who cares if the queue is long, would you rather know that they are only letting those who should be in the country in, or are you in a hurry for that first beer, while the murderer who sat next to you on the plane adds you to his list.
A bit over dramatic maybe, but hey you never know....
As to my 'friends' who were allowed to keep their passports and return here even though they were blatant overstayers. They were crowing about this on Saturday, so I made some comments and then left.
I will report what happens if anything when the consulate has looked at their NLV applications. Its a six to ten week thing at the present moment.
May 14th 2023, 5:39 pm
#83
Polished expat
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 16,593
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
I'm still not seeing how other EU countries not being thorough enough, if indeed they're not on anything other than overstays, could have impacted adversely on the UK. The UK was always doing its own checks, not just allowing anybody who flew in from Spain to waltz through unchecked. And 3rd country nationals flying from Spain would have been subject to the full check, not the EU passport holder one.
May 14th 2023, 5:56 pm
#84
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 790
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
For all those UK nationals above who feel aggrieved at any personal/financial
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
May 14th 2023, 6:30 pm
#85
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2023
Location: Cantabria or Somerset
Posts: 345
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
For all those UK nationals above who feel aggrieved at any personal/financial
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
. Brexit is done and dusted and history. If you are bitter and twisted about having to get an Irish passport to fulfil your EU dream, that's life. Move on. Everyone here has solved their own problem their own way. This thread contains a legitimate criticism of the EU which you have totally failed to answer.
May 14th 2023, 6:30 pm
#86
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2021
Location: Alzira
Posts: 258
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
For all those UK nationals above who feel aggrieved at any personal/financial
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
sacrifices they have had to make when becoming resident in Spain while some of their fellow UK nationals allegedly overstay and allegedly get away with it, comfort yourselves with this thought. Their days are numbered and it will catch up with them eventually.
I'm not personally responsible for any of the issues raised above and if it was down to me and my actions in the polling booth, this thread would not exist and you would still have EU freedom of movement and no passport stamping or EES/ETIAS to worry about. What bliss that would be.
As for ETAS, how long before a work around is found by some devious character, it surely will happen. if it ever gets up and running.
May 14th 2023, 6:32 pm
#87
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2021
Location: Alzira
Posts: 258
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
. Brexit is done and dusted and history. If you are bitter and twisted about having to get an Irish passport to fulfil your EU dream, that's life. Move on. Everyone here has solved their own problem their own way. This thread contains a legitimate criticism of the EU which you have totally failed to answer.
May 14th 2023, 6:48 pm
#88
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2023
Location: Cantabria or Somerset
Posts: 345
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
Doing the best I can And to answer the point you made above, what are the figures, 13 million UK visitors to Spain each year? Nearly all of those don't even think about FOM, they just enjoy their holidays and are blissfully unaware of these issues. We here are affected, but we've each worked out our solutions. It is what it is, and we solve it to the best of our abilities.
And to answer the point you made above, what are the figures, 13 million UK visitors to Spain each year? Nearly all of those don't even think about FOM, they just enjoy their holidays and are blissfully unaware of these issues. We here are affected, but we've each worked out our solutions. It is what it is, and we solve it to the best of our abilities.
May 14th 2023, 6:55 pm
#89
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2021
Location: Alzira
Posts: 258
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
Doing the best I can And to answer the point you made above, what are the figures, 13 million UK visitors to Spain each year? Nearly all of those don't even think about FOM, they just enjoy their holidays and are blissfully unaware of these issues. We here are affected, but we've each worked out our solutions. It is what it is, and we solve it to the best of our abilities.
And to answer the point you made above, what are the figures, 13 million UK visitors to Spain each year? Nearly all of those don't even think about FOM, they just enjoy their holidays and are blissfully unaware of these issues. We here are affected, but we've each worked out our solutions. It is what it is, and we solve it to the best of our abilities.Not sure about numbers, but i saw on Statista website, UK visitors added 17.16 billion euros to the Spanish economy in 2022
May 14th 2023, 7:02 pm
#90
Polished expat
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 16,593
Re: Spain has not expelled any Brits!
No, just pointing out that like all the best cults, the answer to some perceived failure in Brexit is always more Brexit instead of highlighting the essential pointlessness of the entire endeavour.
In this case the belief was the UK must make changes to reciprocate on Schengen 90/180 day rules even though it would probably just end up making life more difficult for British-European families and few other people.
In this case the belief was the UK must make changes to reciprocate on Schengen 90/180 day rules even though it would probably just end up making life more difficult for British-European families and few other people.
