Spain´s Stolen Children
Oct 20th 2011, 11:22 am
#76
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Bloody hell, I'm getting worried here, has bil gone missing ?
Oct 20th 2011, 11:43 am
#77
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,278
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Geeze mate, I dunno. How much responsibility does a bishop have if he pimps for a known paedophile?
As for the old lady, well, what harm does it do if she takes communion kneeling in front of the bishop, to assert his power over the congregation?
Ok, so technically what he did is wrong, but that doesn't matter does it?
As for the old lady, well, what harm does it do if she takes communion kneeling in front of the bishop, to assert his power over the congregation?
Ok, so technically what he did is wrong, but that doesn't matter does it?
Oct 20th 2011, 12:11 pm
#78
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,806
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Not that lucky.
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
Last edited by Rosemary; Oct 20th 2011 at 12:41 pm.
Oct 20th 2011, 12:15 pm
#80
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,806
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Bil.
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
Last edited by Rosemary; Oct 20th 2011 at 12:42 pm.
Oct 20th 2011, 1:40 pm
#81
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 396
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Not that lucky.
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
I doubt very much if either myself or Bil have ever been responsible for persecuting anyone who does not agree with us but we are entitled to our opinions.
In my ideal world these religions would be forced to expose all the historical evidence that contradicts their ideals which they managed to confiscate whilst abusing their time in power.
In my ideal world the human race will be one through revolution from the middle. Once religion's fantasies are revealed to be just that the world should rethink it's various power bases and track back to a world with one border which works together for the benefit of all since the perceived differences were proved to be unfounded. Perhaps this will allow a group of children in Mogadishu to play around in the building that used to be a mosque while their parents and grandparents sit and chat out front the same way their Spanish counterparts can
As a realist I am quite aware that this will not happen since those in power will never agree to relinquish power to help those that are suffering in this world. But I maintain my right to have the opinion that most of the world's problems are a direct result of the division caused by religions which have historically enforced themselves onto this world and the fighting will never stop until these past wrongs are set right.
For this reason you will see me voicing my opinion wherever religion is discussed in this case catholicism but do not rule me out of future similar debates on Islam Judaism, National Socialism or any other holier than thou organisation willing to cause harm to others in the name of a supreme being and the well being of it's own followers to the exclusion of others
Oct 20th 2011, 2:09 pm
#82
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Belonging to the human race is a crime in itself... we are violent, destructive, greedy, breed like a pest and are a cancer to the planet.
Because of this, we all should commit suicide immediately to stop all these crimes, and maybe bil should be the first one to show us the way to stop our damaging and disgusting existence, as simply by breathing we implicitly agree to continue our ways condoning our crimes against ourselves and the planet.
... Is that enough, or should we go on and on pointing out the past and pocking a finger in everybody's eye??? Because WE ALL HAVE THINGS TO BE ASHAMED OF. Remember what happened after one particular king decided he had to marry a particular pricktease and put his little thing in her hole whatever the cost, making this the reason to break with the pope... as well as getting the catholic church wealth, of course. Did it really worth all the killings, tortures, forced mass conversions...? Are the modern anglicans like that? No, they are not, most are happy in their religious or not religious ways and don't feel the urge to kill catholics or followers of other religions.
We all can learn from the past and there is no point in calling only a part of history to support one affirmation and leave all the rest that don't support it. Let's stop calling old times, we all get burned if not in the actual pyres.
As per the present, which is the important thing, there is a lot of pressure to change the rules and charge the criminals, and not only in the catholic church. We all know that. So bil, if this is concerning you so much that you cannot stop moving the shit, stop doing it only with words in a small forum, please stop tiring out your fingers here and go on a moral pilgrimage to the Vatican and do some more pressure to change things, you will find a lot of people thinking the same, and most of them will be catholics, believe it or not.
Attack what needs to be attacked, and stop moving the sock full of shit in quick circles over your head, we all will get stained and solve nothing.
Institutions are made of people, good and bad, and they are the ones to be sat in judgment, and we all want it to happen in this world, not the next one.
For the last time, and I hope this time you will read this as I have written it several times now: I attack the criminals and the rules that protect them, just as I am attacking your stupid attack on the innocent followers. Things are changing, and most of the change is coming from internal pressure, not from a guy comfortably sat in Spain who finds it amusing to probe who far he can get before people get offended, and changing absolutely nothing in the way.
And no, I won't bother to continue your game... you can act accordingly to my first absolute assertion as it seems that is your way of thinking, so please be consistent.
Because of this, we all should commit suicide immediately to stop all these crimes, and maybe bil should be the first one to show us the way to stop our damaging and disgusting existence, as simply by breathing we implicitly agree to continue our ways condoning our crimes against ourselves and the planet.
... Is that enough, or should we go on and on pointing out the past and pocking a finger in everybody's eye??? Because WE ALL HAVE THINGS TO BE ASHAMED OF. Remember what happened after one particular king decided he had to marry a particular pricktease and put his little thing in her hole whatever the cost, making this the reason to break with the pope... as well as getting the catholic church wealth, of course. Did it really worth all the killings, tortures, forced mass conversions...? Are the modern anglicans like that? No, they are not, most are happy in their religious or not religious ways and don't feel the urge to kill catholics or followers of other religions.
We all can learn from the past and there is no point in calling only a part of history to support one affirmation and leave all the rest that don't support it. Let's stop calling old times, we all get burned if not in the actual pyres.
As per the present, which is the important thing, there is a lot of pressure to change the rules and charge the criminals, and not only in the catholic church. We all know that. So bil, if this is concerning you so much that you cannot stop moving the shit, stop doing it only with words in a small forum, please stop tiring out your fingers here and go on a moral pilgrimage to the Vatican and do some more pressure to change things, you will find a lot of people thinking the same, and most of them will be catholics, believe it or not.
Attack what needs to be attacked, and stop moving the sock full of shit in quick circles over your head, we all will get stained and solve nothing.
Institutions are made of people, good and bad, and they are the ones to be sat in judgment, and we all want it to happen in this world, not the next one.
For the last time, and I hope this time you will read this as I have written it several times now: I attack the criminals and the rules that protect them, just as I am attacking your stupid attack on the innocent followers. Things are changing, and most of the change is coming from internal pressure, not from a guy comfortably sat in Spain who finds it amusing to probe who far he can get before people get offended, and changing absolutely nothing in the way.
And no, I won't bother to continue your game... you can act accordingly to my first absolute assertion as it seems that is your way of thinking, so please be consistent.
So my protest is like waving a sock full of shit, and I should stop at once. I have to assume from this that you find my complaints worse than the offence I am complaining about.
That says more about you than it does about me, to be honest.
My attack on innocent worshippers. Now, this is something I'm trying to establish. Just how innocent can worshippers be, in supporting a church that doesn't merely condone paedophilia, it actively pimps for it.
That's the thing I am seeking clarification. If you know, and do nothing, can you be completely innocent?
Now let's see. Will I get an intelligent post discussing this sensibly without shit filled socks and other hyperbole, or will you just run away going "Lalalalalalal I can't hear you, stupi, stupid, lalalalalala...."
Oct 20th 2011, 2:14 pm
#84
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Bil.
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
Before you come back with the rather sad little defence there, why not try answering my questions? Or like others have you joined the 'Lalalala' brigade.
Oct 20th 2011, 2:19 pm
#85
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Not that lucky.
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
When I was young I was brought up to believe in God, when I reached my teenage years I changed to being an atheist and then on reflection I realised that just as no-one could prove that there was a God by the same token no-one could disprove that there was a God and since then I have been agnostic.
The problem with some of the posts is the downright "I know everything" attitude that some posters have when in reality it is all bluster and very boring. What I said earlier applies to this forum as well, no-one on here can prove that there is a God and likewise no-one can prove that there is not, no matter what rubbish is spouted.
Why cannot people accept that everyone has the right, (also enshrined in law), to believe in what they wish otherwise you go the route of the Nazis.
Some posters will say that we are all just debating but I am afraid that having posters who constantly and chidishly ram their opinions down everyone´s throat is not debating just pathetic I think we can all probably remember the types when debating at school.
Graham
Let's hope they are wrong. Logically you can demonstrate that if there is a god a la old testament, a jealous god who tortured Job on a bet, and exterminated almost every animal and human on the planet, including newborns, then living with him in heaven would be hell, and hell couldn't be worse.
Anyone here who has lived with a jealous partner will know what I mean there.
The idea that god listens to prayers and answers some is patently ludicrous. (Unless of course he is a nasty, jealous litte sh'it who rewards a nice piece of butt kissing.)
Oct 20th 2011, 2:21 pm
#86
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Bil.
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
God you are so tedious.
I will not waste my time answering your post because it does not matter what anyone else thinks or believes in you have a tendency to rubbish their opinion.
Quite frankly I find it amazing that you are willing to live in a country that is dominantly Catholic. Surely you should be afraid that any money that you bring to the table will go into a catholic pocket and therefore end up supporting the church and all of the wrongdoings.
Rosemary
Oct 20th 2011, 2:31 pm
#87
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
One of the most remarkable things Spain did after Franco died was agree to not wave a sock full of shit, otherwise there may well have been another war. The 2 sides are still at each other throats, but not over any serious life and death issues because they decided in wouldnt do anyone any good.
There is an argument to say that the average Catholic is to blame for the paedaphilic priests as much as you are blame for Blair and Bush killing 600,000 Iraqi civilians. After all, why didnt you stop them? You could have done more, you could have bombed Downing street personally or renounced your Britishness.
The only thing I could do was vote for the only party wanting to pull out of Iraq at election time. A pathetic cowardly act. If we had balls we would rebel, unite and fight (like the students in Chile who want free education), but we dont, we stay at home, watch TV or waste our breath on forums like this while the bankers and politicians sell the souls of our grandchildren.
We all have blood on our hands, how do you think we got to having this comfortable quality of life while millions of children starve every year or die due to a lack of clean water? It is difficult to feel morally superior over anyone else in the world, intellectually superior maybe, but morally, no.
Oct 20th 2011, 2:40 pm
#88
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Valencia
Posts: 1,164
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Bil you can ran as much as Evamar but no-one is listening.
You believe what you believe and everyone else does the same.
You can no more change anyones ideas or beliefs than you can stop the machine..
I watched the TV programme and saw an evil vile old bastard who had been allowed to manipulate people for many decades maybe hiding behind the Churches skirts but actually it was for money and power.
That they were nuns is because they were there. No doubt if they were some other group of people he would have been allowed to do the same.
Men like him are everywhere in positions of power, always have been, always will be.
You believe what you believe and everyone else does the same.
You can no more change anyones ideas or beliefs than you can stop the machine..
I watched the TV programme and saw an evil vile old bastard who had been allowed to manipulate people for many decades maybe hiding behind the Churches skirts but actually it was for money and power.
That they were nuns is because they were there. No doubt if they were some other group of people he would have been allowed to do the same.
Men like him are everywhere in positions of power, always have been, always will be.
Oct 20th 2011, 2:55 pm
#89
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,806
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
I think it's quite sad that you and Graham are taking this personally. If you read what I post, I'm pretty careful to say IMO and I think and stuff like that. I think I'm entitled to say if you or Graham say something stupid, and for you to start saying nasty personal stuff is really beneath you. I never said he was stupid, just that is a stupid thing to say that because an organisation does some good it is above criticism.
Before you come back with the rather sad little defence there, why not try answering my questions? Or like others have you joined the 'Lalalala' brigade.
Before you come back with the rather sad little defence there, why not try answering my questions? Or like others have you joined the 'Lalalala' brigade.
You force your beliefs so much that I end up not reading the bulk of your posts. There are no easy and straightforward answers to these types of difficulties within any organisation so why should there be a clearcut and simple answer to those in the Catholic church. Knocking those who have a strong religious faith and stating that they are responsible for the problems is not helpful or fair.
Rosemary
Oct 20th 2011, 3:07 pm
#90
Spanish, 40
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Surrey. Back to Spain in 2012
Posts: 287
Re: Spain´s Stolen Children
Oh dear. I had hoped for an intelligent, thoughtful response. You really don't get it do you?
So my protest is like waving a sock full of shit, and I should stop at once. I have to assume from this that you find my complaints worse than the offence I am complaining about.
That says more about you than it does about me, to be honest.
My attack on innocent worshippers. Now, this is something I'm trying to establish. Just how innocent can worshippers be, in supporting a church that doesn't merely condone paedophilia, it actively pimps for it.
That's the thing I am seeking clarification. If you know, and do nothing, can you be completely innocent?
Now let's see. Will I get an intelligent post discussing this sensibly without shit filled socks and other hyperbole, or will you just run away going "Lalalalalalal I can't hear you, stupi, stupid, lalalalalala...."
So my protest is like waving a sock full of shit, and I should stop at once. I have to assume from this that you find my complaints worse than the offence I am complaining about.
That says more about you than it does about me, to be honest.
My attack on innocent worshippers. Now, this is something I'm trying to establish. Just how innocent can worshippers be, in supporting a church that doesn't merely condone paedophilia, it actively pimps for it.
That's the thing I am seeking clarification. If you know, and do nothing, can you be completely innocent?
Now let's see. Will I get an intelligent post discussing this sensibly without shit filled socks and other hyperbole, or will you just run away going "Lalalalalalal I can't hear you, stupi, stupid, lalalalalala...."
I have given you the right about the criminals and the rules that protect them, which is the main thing to change things. Still you continue Lalalalalaaaing about the worshippers... You have been singing that from the beginning many posts ago. Go on... don't stop singing, it really changes the world and you can be truly proud of doing something about it.
Run away? Nope, I did explain my position: criminals should be charged and the rules changed, for some reason you feel you have to use the sock. Seeing your attitude, I can simply be condescending and allow your ego to apparently win so that you will stop. Exactly as I would do with a 5 years old.
So don't worry, I will do the "Lalalalalalal I can't hear you, stupi, stupid, lalalalalala...." as that is the only reply you will take to your own "Lalalalalalal I can't hear you, stupi, stupid, lalalalalala....".
If you really need to get the last word, go ahead with the sock. At the end of the day I think that we all agree that criminals should face jail, which is really the main thing here. As Whitelinen says, no point in continuing.