reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Feb 5th 2013, 11:02 am
#31
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
I don't think anyone believes it's OK to blatantly evade taxes, but I admit I have some difficulty just sitting by and watching taxes go up and up whilst benefits go down and down, without questioning it, and doing my best to avoid paying more tax than I absolutely need to. And if you're honest with yourself (and smart), you do too.
Now if you want to argue that paying more tax is the right thing to do in a crisis, then ask yourself what is the single most important metric of economic growth? Might it be: consumer spending?
Spending is something we are less and less able to do because we pay more and more of it in taxes to make up for the crisis, since nobody has jobs and therefore buy fewer products from Spanish businesses, who therefore have to further cut their workforce, and therefore impose ever-increasing burdens on the social system, leading to more taxes and burdens on the remaining few who have an income.
Think about it. The spiral really needs to go the opposite direction, doesn't it?
Seems to me that if you don't have better things to worry about than whether your neighbour is paying "her fair share" or not (or even worse, taking steps to self-police your neighbour), then things must be pretty farking good for you, to justify being so sanctimonious about it.
So, do you pay your "fair share"? Really? Are you sure?
Now if you want to argue that paying more tax is the right thing to do in a crisis, then ask yourself what is the single most important metric of economic growth? Might it be: consumer spending?
Spending is something we are less and less able to do because we pay more and more of it in taxes to make up for the crisis, since nobody has jobs and therefore buy fewer products from Spanish businesses, who therefore have to further cut their workforce, and therefore impose ever-increasing burdens on the social system, leading to more taxes and burdens on the remaining few who have an income.
Think about it. The spiral really needs to go the opposite direction, doesn't it?
Seems to me that if you don't have better things to worry about than whether your neighbour is paying "her fair share" or not (or even worse, taking steps to self-police your neighbour), then things must be pretty farking good for you, to justify being so sanctimonious about it.
So, do you pay your "fair share"? Really? Are you sure?
Sorry, were you refering to me? I don't think that I said anything about worrying whether my neighbour pays anything at all.
In fact just the opposite.
I understand completely why people don't want to pay tax.
And if you were referring to me, I don't have it so "farking good". I just want to live my life in peace, without hassle from the authorities.
And if you had read the above posts you would see that I am actually against "grassing" people to the tax man.
Do I pay my fair share? I pay the minimum that is demanded in order to comply.
And as for being sanctimonious, show me where I was being so?
Feb 5th 2013, 11:31 am
#32
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Sorry, were you refering to me? I don't think that I said anything about worrying whether my neighbour pays anything at all.
In fact just the opposite.
I understand completely why people don't want to pay tax.
And if you were referring to me, I don't have it so "farking good". I just want to live my life in peace, without hassle from the authorities.
And if you had read the above posts you would see that I am actually against "grassing" people to the tax man.
Do I pay my fair share? I pay the minimum that is demanded in order to comply.
And as for being sanctimonious, show me where I was being so?
In fact just the opposite.
I understand completely why people don't want to pay tax.
And if you were referring to me, I don't have it so "farking good". I just want to live my life in peace, without hassle from the authorities.
And if you had read the above posts you would see that I am actually against "grassing" people to the tax man.
Do I pay my fair share? I pay the minimum that is demanded in order to comply.
And as for being sanctimonious, show me where I was being so?
Tax evasion IS blatent theft by the way BG ..... and I am fairly sure we will allhave been guilty of it at some time. I'm not making a point if I agree with it or not, I'm just pointing out the double standards on this particular thread
Feb 5th 2013, 12:20 pm
#33
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
On the one hand people on here berate and abuse the OP for letting his wife stand for her boss refusing to give her a contract and therefore not being on the books. On the other hand the same people agree with you for saying that you dont agree with dobbing, but you you dont blame them for evading tax.
Tax evasion IS blatent theft by the way BG ..... and I am fairly sure we will allhave been guilty of it at some time. I'm not making a point if I agree with it or not, I'm just pointing out the double standards on this particular thread
Tax evasion IS blatent theft by the way BG ..... and I am fairly sure we will allhave been guilty of it at some time. I'm not making a point if I agree with it or not, I'm just pointing out the double standards on this particular thread
In the eyes of the law, then yes.
But then I would say that tax in and of itself is blatent theft. I am not given a choice as to whether I wish to pay it. If I refuse then I will be punished and my property forcibly removed. That is blatent theft. Government controlled blatent theft.
Not wishing to get into the evasion/avoidance debate, I will say that the "rules" for tax are rigged in favour of rich, powerful people. I don't have access to offshore accounts or clever accountants. I am forced to abide by the rules that the Spanish government set.
The amount of tax that I am forced to pay is increased in proportion to the amount of tax that rich and powerful people can avoid paying. They can avoid paying tax because "the rules" allow them to do so.
It's a rigged game.
Feb 5th 2013, 12:54 pm
#34
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
That's a matter of opinion.
In the eyes of the law, then yes.
But then I would say that tax in and of itself is blatent theft. I am not given a choice as to whether I wish to pay it. If I refuse then I will be punished and my property forcibly removed. That is blatent theft. Government controlled blatent theft.
Not wishing to get into the evasion/avoidance debate, I will say that the "rules" for tax are rigged in favour of rich, powerful people. I don't have access to offshore accounts or clever accountants. I am forced to abide by the rules that the Spanish government set.
The amount of tax that I am forced to pay is increased in proportion to the amount of tax that rich and powerful people can avoid paying. They can avoid paying tax because "the rules" allow them to do so.
It's a rigged game.
In the eyes of the law, then yes.
But then I would say that tax in and of itself is blatent theft. I am not given a choice as to whether I wish to pay it. If I refuse then I will be punished and my property forcibly removed. That is blatent theft. Government controlled blatent theft.
Not wishing to get into the evasion/avoidance debate, I will say that the "rules" for tax are rigged in favour of rich, powerful people. I don't have access to offshore accounts or clever accountants. I am forced to abide by the rules that the Spanish government set.
The amount of tax that I am forced to pay is increased in proportion to the amount of tax that rich and powerful people can avoid paying. They can avoid paying tax because "the rules" allow them to do so.
It's a rigged game.
Now, having said that, I do agree that we have little say about what we pay for or where it goes. When I increasingly hear (and see) massive amounts of taxpayer money being wasted for nonsensical reasons (or to line others' pockets) I can't help but be a little skeptical about the politics that drive the so-called "solutions" to our economic crisis. Obviously, there's more than meets the eye, and where there's smoke, there's fire.
Of course, if you really believe "it's a rigged game", then you could equally argue that France is "doing the right thing" by imposing 75% tax on anyone who manages to achieve prosperity. But as Mr. Hollande is woefully discovering, the predictable result isn't what was intended: France is now becoming a bad place to prosper. After all, prosperity is a bad thing, innit? Why else would you penalise prosperity?
They say that bankers are greedy, corrupt, and oppressive. But I can't help but submit that collectively, our politicians are far more so...
I feel sorry for any politician who'd naively aspire to play it "straight". It's political suicide.
Feb 5th 2013, 1:07 pm
#35
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
I don't understand how a 75% tax rate can be justified anywhere.
Prosperity is not a bad thing. I wish I were a rich man.
I would reduce the tax burden at all levels. Cut government waste and spending. Allow people to keep most of their hard-earned cash. Stop giving it to banks.
I agree with your spiral analogy. People need to be spending their own money on themselves and not the government stealing it from them.
I read somewhere that the average PAYE employee is really taxed at nearly 70% when you include the fact that we pay tax on already-taxed income, vat, fuel duty, alcohol duty, council tax, etc.
It is a rigged game.
Prosperity is not a bad thing. I wish I were a rich man.
I would reduce the tax burden at all levels. Cut government waste and spending. Allow people to keep most of their hard-earned cash. Stop giving it to banks.
I agree with your spiral analogy. People need to be spending their own money on themselves and not the government stealing it from them.
I read somewhere that the average PAYE employee is really taxed at nearly 70% when you include the fact that we pay tax on already-taxed income, vat, fuel duty, alcohol duty, council tax, etc.
It is a rigged game.
Feb 5th 2013, 2:22 pm
#36
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Posts: 12,053
Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
I hope I am going to put a bit of a different aspect to the original problem - the OP's wife working without a contract.
In a subsequent posting the OP said his bar had a visit from the employment people to check employee contracts. Presumably they also checked that the business was paying its relevant dues to the government.
Now, I remember reading last year in Sur in English if I have this right, that the employment people had found businesses where there were no or defective contracts. This lead to the business and the owner being fined as well as all the missing monies from the business and the employees.
What is the feeling about this from those who have direct experience of these matters ? ? ?
In a subsequent posting the OP said his bar had a visit from the employment people to check employee contracts. Presumably they also checked that the business was paying its relevant dues to the government.
Now, I remember reading last year in Sur in English if I have this right, that the employment people had found businesses where there were no or defective contracts. This lead to the business and the owner being fined as well as all the missing monies from the business and the employees.
What is the feeling about this from those who have direct experience of these matters ? ? ?
Feb 5th 2013, 5:56 pm
#37
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Valencia area
Posts: 1,157
Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
That's a matter of opinion.
In the eyes of the law, then yes.
But then I would say that tax in and of itself is blatent theft. I am not given a choice as to whether I wish to pay it. If I refuse then I will be punished and my property forcibly removed. That is blatent theft. Government controlled blatent theft.
Not wishing to get into the evasion/avoidance debate, I will say that the "rules" for tax are rigged in favour of rich, powerful people. I don't have access to offshore accounts or clever accountants. I am forced to abide by the rules that the Spanish government set.
The amount of tax that I am forced to pay is increased in proportion to the amount of tax that rich and powerful people can avoid paying. They can avoid paying tax because "the rules" allow them to do so.
It's a rigged game.
In the eyes of the law, then yes.
But then I would say that tax in and of itself is blatent theft. I am not given a choice as to whether I wish to pay it. If I refuse then I will be punished and my property forcibly removed. That is blatent theft. Government controlled blatent theft.
Not wishing to get into the evasion/avoidance debate, I will say that the "rules" for tax are rigged in favour of rich, powerful people. I don't have access to offshore accounts or clever accountants. I am forced to abide by the rules that the Spanish government set.
The amount of tax that I am forced to pay is increased in proportion to the amount of tax that rich and powerful people can avoid paying. They can avoid paying tax because "the rules" allow them to do so.
It's a rigged game.
Feb 5th 2013, 11:42 pm
#38
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Thread Starter
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Posts: 189
Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Domino,dont judge me and how i ran my business in spain because I know that others do it badly,i paid tax,the people i employed were on contract and with IVa,i generally got a refund,it seems that you dont understand how the majority of brits operate bars here,dont forget most last under a year so probably pay bugger all legally,this place where my wife works is an exception,they have got away with it for a long time
Feb 5th 2013, 11:47 pm
#39
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Some of us do have an idea of what the working world is like in Spain.
Both me and my husband have Spanish family members who are business people/employees/employers/self employed, that cover most types of business activities.
My husband is JLFS, a former/banned member of this forum, (one of the few Spanish posters on BE), so the comment about not knowing what it is like working in Spain is a bit wide off the mark in my case.
The fact that your wife was always asking for a contract cuts no ice with anyone, how long does it take to realise that you are not getting one? Not 4 years.
Correct me if I am wrong but she would have still been working there, and serving the manky food with no contract if she had not been given notice, so the moral high ground that you are on is rather shaky to say the least.
PS your wife has already avoided paying tax and SS, years worth
Both me and my husband have Spanish family members who are business people/employees/employers/self employed, that cover most types of business activities.
My husband is JLFS, a former/banned member of this forum, (one of the few Spanish posters on BE), so the comment about not knowing what it is like working in Spain is a bit wide off the mark in my case.
The fact that your wife was always asking for a contract cuts no ice with anyone, how long does it take to realise that you are not getting one? Not 4 years.
Correct me if I am wrong but she would have still been working there, and serving the manky food with no contract if she had not been given notice, so the moral high ground that you are on is rather shaky to say the least.
PS your wife has already avoided paying tax and SS, years worth
Feb 5th 2013, 11:59 pm
#40
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Geeze....you're posting on a public forum and don't like the responses you've been given. So some folks don't agree with what you are proposing and voice their objections to it. So you respond like this?
Get used to it. It's a public forum. What did you expect?
And for what it's worth, I don't agree with you dobbing someone in for not paying tax. I have neighbours that earn a lot more than me but don't declare anything. I can't say I blame them. My tax bill went up by about 1500€ last year - my income didn't change. We're all having to pay for the enrichment of our rulers. We're all in ours together - they're all in theirs together.
And if you really objected to the hygiene you should have left long ago.
Get used to it. It's a public forum. What did you expect?
And for what it's worth, I don't agree with you dobbing someone in for not paying tax. I have neighbours that earn a lot more than me but don't declare anything. I can't say I blame them. My tax bill went up by about 1500€ last year - my income didn't change. We're all having to pay for the enrichment of our rulers. We're all in ours together - they're all in theirs together.
And if you really objected to the hygiene you should have left long ago.
Feb 6th 2013, 12:03 am
#41
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
why am i taking the piss?,I did when I ran my business run it fully legally,i have no control over how others run theirs,your ignorance gets better and better,you really need to <snip>
Last edited by Sue; Feb 6th 2013 at 12:09 am. Reason: Please lets not resort to bad language ... many thanks
Feb 6th 2013, 12:07 am
#42
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Posts: 189
Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
I hope I am going to put a bit of a different aspect to the original problem - the OP's wife working without a contract.
In a subsequent posting the OP said his bar had a visit from the employment people to check employee contracts. Presumably they also checked that the business was paying its relevant dues to the government.
Now, I remember reading last year in Sur in English if I have this right, that the employment people had found businesses where there were no or defective contracts. This lead to the business and the owner being fined as well as all the missing monies from the business and the employees.
What is the feeling about this from those who have direct experience of these matters ? ? ?
In a subsequent posting the OP said his bar had a visit from the employment people to check employee contracts. Presumably they also checked that the business was paying its relevant dues to the government.
Now, I remember reading last year in Sur in English if I have this right, that the employment people had found businesses where there were no or defective contracts. This lead to the business and the owner being fined as well as all the missing monies from the business and the employees.
What is the feeling about this from those who have direct experience of these matters ? ? ?
Feb 6th 2013, 12:17 am
#43
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 189
Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Finally thanks Mitzy for at least trying to get a bit of commen sense here,but as with only one exception my post was not answered,i wish i had not posted as you lot really do not seem to understand the problems for people in employment in english bars here and how badly they are run(a few exceptions ofc)or the chances of getting another job if you leave or get layed off,anyway....
AS the great Bon Scott once sang,Im gonna ride on...
ps that idiot Rotor really needs to get a life,a very sad person sending threats over the internet,damn guy has me shakin in ma boots
AS the great Bon Scott once sang,Im gonna ride on...
ps that idiot Rotor really needs to get a life,a very sad person sending threats over the internet,damn guy has me shakin in ma boots
Feb 6th 2013, 12:23 am
#44
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Re: reprting someone to the tax and vat guys in spain
Ok, I think this thread has run its course.
Over and out
Over and out
