Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

So hold on, you are against colonialism but you think that since Spain took Cueta and its other territories by force rather than by a treaty like Gibraltar they should be allowed to keep them?

You stated that Spain's Moroccan territories were Spanish before Morocco was even a country, I said thats not true, that is what the Moors have to do with this discussion.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

Spain didn´t take Ceuta. The kind of Portugal ceded it to the Spanish monarchy in 1668, as most of its citizens were of spanish origin and had allegiance for them.

Al Andalus was not some sort of "ancient Morocco". And all the moor invasion and reconquista thing happened centuries before the concept of modern state was created so any territorial discussion related to it (or to the FRENCH Normans ruling the britons, while we´re on it ;)) is beyond the point.


But I digress. The point is, neither Melilla or Ceuta have a colony status. Gibraltar should become the same kind of autonomous city and remain what most of its citizens would vote to (british, I guess). My question about the claims of Gibraltar over the surrounding waters was not a hint, I´d really want to know. Is there any actual law supporting it? did they renegotiate the treaty?

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

Every maritime territory in the world includes its adjacent waters including Gibraltar. Some - including Gibraltar - claim three miles. Others (including Spain and Ceuta and Melilla) claim 12. What does the treaty of Utrecht say that leads you do believe that Gibraltar should be an exception to this global entitlement?

Here is a map of the Straits with each country's territorial waters...

http://www.gibnet.com/fish/waters.gif

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

If we go back to 1704 or 1713 I believe you will find that Spain did not have any territorial waters to cede to Gibraltar because the concept of territorial waters did not exist at that time. Cannon fire was the order of the day and it's range was the governing factor.

If you would like to discuss Gibraltar's future in relation to its proximity to Spain or the Falkland Islands due to their proximity to Argentina then I shall ask you does Alaska belong to Russia or Canada?

The Gibraltar government has asked on many occasions for Spain to take it's case to the European Court of Arbitration to settle the dispute once and for all. Spain will not, possibly because in today's age how can you defend a treaty that bans Jews and Moors from Gibraltar amongst other things.

Spain and Argentina have had terrible human rights issues in recent years and neither takes the will of people into consideration today.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

Of Tenerife? Madeira? Or Cueta... oh wait, no that doesn't work does it?

Its worth noting that when the Falklands was first founded.... by whoever you want to believe did so, Argentina was not a state and it had no territories in the southern part of the continent.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

The elephant hunter is visiting Algeciras on Wednesday only 4 miles from Gib.
Do you think this Grey Funnel Liner is here to give him a royal salute?

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/P6175560.jpg

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

Nail, Head, Hammer.

Could it possibly be that the recent Spanish right royal rumpus over Gib. is
little more than an attempted patch up job for the adverse elephant hunting fiasco ? :cool:

If so a little retribution up the stern with a dose of red hot powder from the grey funnel job would no doubt be welcomed with great joy by elephants all over the world. ;)

They don't like it up 'em you know. :rofl:

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

one of the most powerful fighting ships in the world.........:britflag:
vs
the elephant hunter and his grandson (still limping from shooting himself in the foot)...:tape:

mmmmmmmm

its going to be a close run thing

:hysterical:

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

The elephantgate is small potatoes for the K of S, he has the Urdangaringate scandal to cope with.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

Fom todays Panorama a Gibraltar daily newspaper

What are we doing to counter Spain’s aggression against Gibraltar?
by Leo Olivero

http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/hea...=8961&offset=0

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

La verdad es que el tío tiene razón. 'Ee's Right, you know.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

surely it is wrong to respond to aggression with aggression ??

quite obviously I am no pacifist, but aggression will not make their case any better and to respond with the same may make ours worse.
it may be my fault for telling everyone on this forum how few ships the RN now has and that Spain has more.
:(

what happened to HMS Scimitar & HMS Sabre ?
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/sitecore...s/hms-scimitar

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

One of them is here, I believe HMS Sabre not sure about the other.

HMS Rooke no longer has a sea view :)

HMS Diamond is leaving in a few days but will be replaced by 8 Tornados to keep the Elephant Hunter's Fishing Armarda at bay, or better still out of the Bay :rofl:

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

just can't see what 8 Tornados can do, at least Diamond would be able to obliterate Algeciras and its fishing fleet without leaving harbour.

http://www.geonames.org/2411560/h-m-s-rooke.html
doesnt show too much in the way, and also 2 grey painted war canoes berthed alongside.
perhaps they can't afford the fuel to go out for the day.

visited many times but never went to Rooke, used to be a much sought after posting for communicators, closer to home than HMS Mauritious or my old stomping ground HMS Terror.

Re: Problems in Gibraltar again
 

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/william-sl...-rhino-horns-1

Guess he was trying to be diplomatic by not mentioning the ivory trade.