Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

The question should be what are these wealth figures based on.

In Spain I would guess that the personal wealth is similar in households as in banks, based on very unrealistic property prices.

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

Well the UK is borrowing at 1.7% now so not far off:lol:

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

Its amazing these people never predicted the shit storm coming isn't it?

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

It's all in the link so it must be true,..........I don't think.:thumbdown:

Maybe that limited survey is an approximate guide for N.Europe where most folk pay their taxes and declare most of their assets, but with regard to Spain and the other Med countries where the black has been the order of the day since Adam was a lad, it's probably completely meaningless.

A very small number of high profile corruption cases came to light a few months back and the amount of hidden assets were mind boggling by any standards. Little doubt that was barely even the tip of the iceberg, though possibly some lesser amounts are involved regarding less high profile people and businesses which have been getting away with it for years in a much more discreet manner.
Consider the amount of bin ladins which were quickly snapped up after coming into circulation, then just as quickly disappeared from the light of day.
Yes there are lots of Spanish with three houses, but that is likely little more than a rough guide to what they are really worth.
From what I've seen most of them have pretty big gardens, much better than mattresses :sneaky: and whatever connections they may have with tax havens way out of reach of EU authorities is anybodies guess.
Anyone recall the total value of the Porches and other luxury cars owned in Greece for instance which made some of their pleas of poverty look like a complete joke

Yes, a large part of the Spanish population is in deep shit, but I would guess that the total overall wealth of the population if ever known would stack up surprisingly well against their N.European counterparts.

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

OK lets play the statistics.....
Spain population = 47 million
tourism income = €40billion ++
GDP = $1.4trillion
Croatia poplultion = 4.5 million
tourism income = €6.6billion
GDP = $80billion

and Germany isn't worried because Croatia is only half the cost of Spain ??
is that because Croatia's Adriatic coastline is popular with the Germans and their towels :sneaky:

and as to the "poor" countries with banks overflowing with money, just remember who it was that had all their money in the Cypriot banks and managed to get it out leaving the poor man in the street to take a haircut.
:frown:

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

I only wanted to point out that Spain is still amongst the more expensive tourist destinations, and getting more so - due to short-sighted money-grabbing policies which will only serve to encourage the golden goose to lay fewer eggs. But it seems that's a typical mindset in Spain, and arguably, part of the "charm" as some might argue.

Regarding Cyprus, excellent example of short-sighted policy using blunt instruments which only end up hurting the average person. And if you think that kind of thing can't happen here, then consider that there's already a demonstrably similar mindset in place...

Most important thing for all of the EU is getting money. Lots of it. Anywhere. But it must be done in such a way that the fewest will take offence and avoid all those pesky demonstrations, and can be somehow rationalised by law. And don't spend a lot of time thinking through the consequences. Just get it... somehow...

Ready, fire, aim...

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

I assume you meant Ready, fire, aim... since that changes the whole context from the usual ready, aim, fire.. if not, it seems more than a little desperate to me to fire aimlessly.

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

Only illustrating the apparent strategy of much of EU fiscal policy at the moment. Many economists and academics agree.

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

That is what I thought.:blink::fingerscrossed::huh:

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

I suppose you have me in the "Pro-Spain" camp so.......
how can you say Spain is expensive when a cup of coffee here can vary from €1.00 to €1.20 compared with UK of £1.50 to £5.00 ??
Menu del Dia (yeah I know that, old chestnut again) but from €3.50 + drink (water free), to about €10.00 compared with the UK's £5.00 for a burger in a bun or £8.00 - £10 for a single course.
Hotels where 3 and 4* from €35-40 per room whilst UK will be charging around £56.

last weekend we had a very pleasant meal out where the main course was €13.00 each, so much meat the BH had to use a doggie bag :eek:

IMHO what needs to be done is to stir the pot, make the markets more competitive, the original EU principle of no borders for all products, but more importantly enable the people living there the opportunity to gain an advantage for their own consumption as well as attracting those from other countries around the world. But that is hard when families of 6/8 are living off the pension income of a senior relative, and/or limited paro.
Those who are working are finding their income is falling.

No, I have no real ideas as to a panacea for the problem - wish I did have, to get the place kick-started. The only problem with tourism it is generally but not exclusively a summer time answer, but that leaves a large chunk of the year without any income.

:frown:

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

You can get a coffee and a bacon sarnie for in a lot of UK places. (if you like downmarket cafes:D) Like Spain it depends where you go and your area Dom, I think is not a tourist area. We noticed drinks in Madrid were generally cheaper than Marbella. Lots of restaurants in the UK do 2 courses for a tenner...these are good restaurants wth good food. Infact you would have to be greedy to want three courses!

I thought Italy was a bit more expensive than Spain. However, hard to cost as food was better. Coffee makers in room etc. so better value all round.

I get BA deals flashed on my screen. Yesterday they were offering flight to Málaga and 4 nights hotel for £152...not bad eh:thumbup:

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

I was actually agreeing with you in an ambiguous sort of way.

Wasn't intended to become a pissing match between Spain and the UK. But those prices you offer are a mere fraction of the norms here in Mallorca (for hotels and restaurants, anyway - private lets usually are a lot less expensive than hotels - which is why the hotels want them "illegalized").

I'm sure you can find hotels in some remote part of Spain for €20 per night, and €1 cups of coffee, but that's not where tourists go.

VAT is 21%, (and the Euro is expensive - OK not Spain's fault). Costs and burdens of owning and operating a hotel or restaurant or shop are pretty high, so those costs are passed on to the tourist. There are per-passenger charges for airlines to land planes, which makes flights more expensive. There are a number of things that make Spain more expensive. These are just a few.

The point is, instead of making Spain more attractive to the very things that would help improve the economy (e.g., tourism, businesses, trade, etc), Spain too oft imposes policies that only make it more burdensome or expensive, with some naive notion that it will somehow make things better. And when the policy does make it worse, it's dismissed as nonsense.

Spain should be opening its doors and encouraging tourism at every turn - not discouraging it or making it more expensive. We should be promoting business, streamlining the bureaucracy, we should have lower taxes, not higher, and we should stop putting up barriers to anyone who wants to spend money here.

And most importantly,we should provide every good motivation for money made in Spain to stay in Spain. The big hotel chains' income certainly doesn't stay here for long.

But that's just not what they do, is it? Short-sighted money grab is the prevailing wisdom, me thinks.

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

sorry, not very good at ambiguous
:o

yes, there should be more reductions in things like IVA for directly related tourism things. It is the one big thing that Spain has that has a short term effect on earnings (railways, cars, bridges, ships etc etc are long term - sorry Stevie). Being able to generate money in the short term is surely the way to move, even if only for 6months.
Perhaps the Govt are worried about the Black effects. I have seen very few bars that actually put the amount of the drinks into the till properly, just hit €0.00 each time, or leave the till open. This means there is no proper accounting. Meanwhile our old friend the UK has meter pumps and records every single drop taken from the barrel.

There are some 365 day tourism attractions around, such as The Alhambra generates €490millions for Granda and €750millions for Andalucia
http://www.ideal.es/granada/20130417...304171502.html
despite the ayuntamiento complaining earlier that too many visitors are only here for the half day before going on to Cordoba or Seville for the afternoon.
The Cathedral is also quite popular but yesterday the open topped buses were almost empty :(

If we can get them onto Spanish soil it is a start, the hard bit is retaining them, but those hardy souls who offer mountain biking, hill climbing etc etc are also getting in on the act.
The scenary is fanctastic - well to me after living at sea level for most of my life, standing on a molehill makes me break out in a sweat. :eek:

rgds

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

Jacky, I am not just talking about in my local mountainside village but in Granada city itself - as stated before that is where I am getting my coffee and del dia.
So we are talking about touristy places, near the Cathedral and the Avenida de Constitucion and the Andalucia.
And full of tourists now................

but its nice to see Italy has come off the floor level at last, then I was in Milan the hotel left a plastic glass wrapped in cellophane, no kettle, coffee maker, no toaster NUFFINK !!
ISTR getting a dirty look because I took a cup of coffee back to my room.

but as you say, depends on where and also when

¬

Re: How will La Crisis effect Spain in the long term?
 

A Spaniard has opened a place in Worthing. Glass of wine, 1 Tapa and a Paella £6.50. No idea of the quality but sounds good:D

ISTR getting a dirty look because I took a cup of coffee back to my room.


Interesting Dom as we have been in hotels in Europe saying "it is forbidden to bring your own drinks into the room" yet in the USA they are happy for you to order takeaways such as pizza to your romm.