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-   -   Health insurance and Tax (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/health-insurance-tax-915541/)

3robinsons Jul 31st 2018 5:19 pm

Health insurance and Tax
 
hi, we intend to retire early and hope to move to Spain next year. We will have a private pension and have a couple of questions......

do we need private health insurance or if we choose to pay tax in Spain would this allow us to access the Spanish healthcare system?
Is it cheaper/easier to pay our tax in Spain or to the UK?
any recommendations for health care insurance, and any pitfalls to look out for?

thanks in advance, this forum is a mine of information 👍

bobd22 Jul 31st 2018 6:12 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
Health care depends on your age. Currently and post Brexit with an agreement on leaving EU, if you or one of you is state pension age you can obtain an S1 from UK DWP that entitles you to health care in Spain. Paying tax in Spain or UK is not a choice you make, if you live in Spain more than 183 days in the year you should pay tax to Spain (lots of threads in the subject). Paying tax in Spain does not entitle you to free health care. If you are below state pension age you will need private health care and if you wish to obtain legal residency in Spain you will need to prove you have this or an S1. I suggest reading through previous threads as all the information you require has been duscuseed previously.

Fred James Jul 31st 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
As of last week, every resident in Spain is entitled to free health care. It is possible that it will take some time before the local offices that control residency get to know about it.

tebo53 Aug 1st 2018 5:38 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
There is a version in Spanish that explains everything It also states that you will need to pay 40% cost of the meds.

https://www.plantadoce.com/publico/la-sanidad-universal-regresa-a-espana-despues-de-seis-anos.html

It says that healthcare will be available free to legal residents. So does that mean you will need to prove you have healthcare initially or don t they ask about healthcare when you apply for residencia?

Steve

spainrico Aug 1st 2018 6:34 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
Loads more useful information here

https://www.gov.uk/world/living-in-spain

Fred James Aug 1st 2018 6:38 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
I shouldn't think anyone involved in the foreigner registration process has the slightest idea. It usually takes ages for the information to filter down to the guy with the rubber stamp.

stevesainty Aug 1st 2018 9:03 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 

Originally Posted by tebo53 (Post 12541580)
There is a version in Spanish that explains everything It also states that you will need to pay 40% cost of the meds.

https://www.plantadoce.com/publico/l...seis-anos.html

It says that healthcare will be available free to legal residents. So does that mean you will need to prove you have healthcare initially or don t they ask about healthcare when you apply for residencia?

Steve

https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...ml&prev=search

it has been determined that foreigners not registered or authorized as residents in Spain must pay 40% of the price of medicines and medical devices they need.



The 40% charge is only for the totally unrecorded/unregistered not for Spanish nationals or those who are legally registered and residents.

bobd22 Aug 1st 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
We had a thread re the new changes the other week. I thought that those from within EU including UK were still expected to comply with bilateral EU conditions i.e. S1 and private if below state pension age? Bit confused myself now. I thought the recent Spanish changes were more for migrants from out with the EU?

spainrico Aug 1st 2018 5:33 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
No, exact opposite if you read the article from the above link - an extract

"all persons with Spanish nationality and foreigners who have established their residence in Spanish territory."

bobd22 Aug 1st 2018 5:43 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
I'm still confused as I'm not sure it is in saying what you imply? It goes on in that link to say the following (which I have copied direct" of course it may be down to translation?

"​​​​​​​ the document approved today maintains that "not compromise the financial sustainability of the National Health System" , since criteria are established to avoid the inappropriate use of the right to healthcare, such as that assistance will be charged to public funds provided that there is no third party obliged to pay; that there is no obligation to prove compulsory coverage by other means; or that you can not export the right to health coverage from your country of origin or provenance."

Fred James Aug 1st 2018 7:14 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
At the moment, the UK is obliged to pay for its S1 pensioners, so at the moment they would be designated a third party as per your text, but that could change after Brexit. Other than that, the two final points do not apply. That means that early retirees currently paying for either the Convenio or private insurance would be covered and then cancel thir insurance or Convenio contract.

Thats my understanding of it - what the authorities make of it is another matter.

bobd22 Aug 1st 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
Fred that is more or less how I read it also. However with Brexit date looming and it's uncertainty. For those hoping to obtain residency pre Brexit date surely need to comply with the rules as we now understand them, i.e. private health insurance unless covered by S1, as to get convenio especial you need to have been legally resident for a year. Unless of course some certain clarification comes out re the new Spanish changes and this is clarified by the residency application system. Somehow I don't see that happening in near future?

lurchio Aug 2nd 2018 8:28 pm

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
Hello Guys! I have been following the new Health reforms with interest. I think you are correct in your thinking. Reading through the document, it appears that you can fall back on the new Health Care rules if 'you are not covered for health care , whilst a Resident in Spain by any other means'. I read this as

1. For 'early retirees', you still have to obtain the' leglislation letter' from the UK, effectively excluding you from the UK NHS as you do not live there anymore. Then, instead of going on the Convenio after 1 year on Private Insurance, you go straight on health cover and residencia. That is, instead of obtaining residencia with Private Insurance and complying with the Convenio requirements that state you have to have been Resident for at least a year before you pay your 60 euros a month. If you are already on the 'Convenio' (like me), I personally will keep paying it until they write to me confirming the situation, or it becomes common knowledge so I can query it. The prescription charges are 100% on the Convenio, so it will be interesting to see the developments there.

2. For those of UK Retirement age that are eligible for an S1. I think as long as the reciprocal agreement stands, there will be the requirement for the UK to pay the 3000 odd euros for you every year. So, technically you are personally getting free health care, but the UK pays which puts it outside of the latest conditions. The only advantage I can see for this category of persons is that IF the UK 'pull' the reciprocal agreement, you then have no cover elsewhere, and fall under the new Regulations. Its a 'safety net' , and a big one! I can also see it being worth while for those who are of retirement age next year, make their plans and find that the UK have pulled the S1 for new applicants! (Bob?)

One thing is for sure, it will have to 'soak through' all the Autonomous Communities, this being Spain who knows how long that will take BUT its a huge step in the right direction really. Me, I will not be cancelling any payment just YET!!!

bobd22 Aug 3rd 2018 9:01 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 

Originally Posted by lurchio (Post 12542340)
One thing is for sure, it will have to 'soak through' all the Autonomous Communities, this being Spain who knows how long that will take BUT its a huge step in the right direction really. Me, I will not be cancelling any payment just YET!!!

Ian you have obviously managed to find more detailed information on these changes than I have. From what I have managed to find it seems that it is really intended for those coming from outside the EU as there are reciprocal agreements for those within the EU that one should comply with. As you say there are those that fall outside those reciprocal agreements i.e. early retirees. The problem I see is time is running out to get legal residency before official Brexit day. With a final deal it has been agreed that those resident pre Brexit date will be able to continue resident and when the time comes be able to obtain medical cover under the S1. From what I have read that is possibly also going to be the case for those obtaining residency in the transition period? However I don't think the latter is certain as yet? So as I see it time is quickly passing to 29 March next year to get residency and remove that uncertainty. As you rightly say it will take time for these changes to be applied by individual regions but time is running out to meet the Brexit date. Like you my view is yes it may well be a fall back position but better to comply with legislation we know is actually in place between UK and Spain now and obtain the important residency pre March 2019 all be it that may cost an individual than miss that date and end up in total limbo! That's just my personal view.

Johncarzx Aug 3rd 2018 10:23 am

Re: Health insurance and Tax
 
This story is certainly doing the rounds, see below.

‘’Cabinet spokeswoman Isabel Celaá said talks were under way with all of Spain's regional governments to negotiate the return of public healthcare to everyone, whether or not they had a valid residence permit or were working, retired, registered on the dole or in receipt of maternity, paternity or sick pay.’’

https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spai...thin-six-weeks

Whilst this statement seems to be in plain English few believe or trust it. It seems a nice headline grabber for the government but if and when the bureaucrats receive the directive the complexion of it may change dramatically.This statement would mean bin the S1 from DWP, bin private health insurance, bin EHIC. It would be Spain twinned with the UK where every man and his dog from anywhere in the world just turns up for free treatment for anything, no questions asked, no documents or ID required, never charged on to anyone other than the British taxpayer who seems to be more interested in the next episode of Coronation Street and the price of lager.

Perhaps all a bit 1st of April stuff. At least Rubber Stamp will think so.


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