Hard Water
Feb 7th 2011 | 4:05 am
#32
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 882
Re: Hard Water
Yes it is a waste of time for removing cal. The acid dissolves the cal. If you add bicarb it neutralises the acid so you have no acid left to dissolve the cal.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.
Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.
The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.
Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.
The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.
Thanks for the advice.
Bil
I thought hard water gave you kidney stones too
Feb 7th 2011 | 4:11 am
#33
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,231
From: Granada Costa
Re: Hard Water
Feb 7th 2011 | 5:20 am
#34
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: Hard Water
I think this is correct. We lived in one place on the CDS with a private water supply. Out of 9 houses 6 people suffered from kidney stones including my OH. The water was very hard. One day we had a visit from some technicos who took samples of the water. About a year later the area was moved onto town water. We have very hard water in Surrey too.
Feb 7th 2011 | 6:18 am
#35
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Hard Water
Yes it is a waste of time for removing cal. The acid dissolves the cal. If you add bicarb it neutralises the acid so you have no acid left to dissolve the cal.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.
Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.
The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.
Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.
The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.
As if.
Feb 7th 2011 | 6:20 am
#36
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Hard Water
Soft water makes me gag. I have heard that drinking it is connected with heart disease, so go figure.....
Feb 7th 2011 | 6:22 am
#37
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,590
Re: Hard Water
Well, I think that not everyone in a hard water area gets kidney stones, or they would be endemic. My suspicions would be that certain people are genetically prone to kidney stones and in hard water areas they will come down with them.
Soft water makes me gag. I have heard that drinking it is connected with heart disease, so go figure.....
Soft water makes me gag. I have heard that drinking it is connected with heart disease, so go figure.....
Feb 7th 2011 | 8:29 am
#40
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Hard Water
We take ours out of the ground for as long as they will allow. Apparantly we are within 100 metres of an arroyo, so when the mains comes we will have to switch to that, and instead of a risk of drinking agrichems, we will have the certainty of drinking chlorinated shite.
Feb 7th 2011 | 10:54 pm
#41
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 882
Re: Hard Water
Thanks Fred, that's precisely what I thought, but I wanted it confirmed. I have seen severel 'domestic goddesses' on the box doing just this, and every time I have wondered if these people were like so many simply repeating stuff that was way beyond them, and that they lacked the basic knowledge and reasoning to grasp that they were simply repeating bollocks. I did once say it to someone who did mix them, only to be told that 'Soand so does it so it must be right.'
As if.
As if.
To say I and many others "lack basic knowledge and reasoning" seems a bit harsh.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
Feb 7th 2011 | 11:00 pm
#42
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,653
From: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Re: Hard Water
Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.
Feb 7th 2011 | 11:05 pm
#43
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 882
Re: Hard Water
I take your point, but it's such basic science that I take it for granted. My old headmaster used to say. 'Learn basic science at least. That way the con men won't be able to deceive you so easily.'
Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.
Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.
At least next time the kettle needs a seeing to I will be doing it with confidence of not repeating bollocks, which is ALWAYS a comfort in this life
Feb 7th 2011 | 11:50 pm
#44
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,912
From: Puente Esuri
Re: Hard Water
I take your point, but it's such basic science that I take it for granted. My old headmaster used to say. 'Learn basic science at least. That way the con men won't be able to deceive you so easily.'
Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.
Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.
Feb 8th 2011 | 1:57 am
#45
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 882
Re: Hard Water
Politics,Established Religions,Class all seem to be pretty far removed from the average joe in the street.
My father used to say that the problems is not that upper class think that they are better than working class, it's that working class don't think they are good as the upper class.
Social conditioning has a lot to answer.
Which clearly has nothing to do with hard water, sorry.
