Vinegar is though a good deal safer to use (is it not) we use it about once a week to descale the kettle.

Well, you do need to be a grownup to use the stuff, but it shifts hard calcite very quickly.

Those not capable of dealing with a strong acid should of course not be allowed near the stuff.

Yeah but do not use it on your chips

I tell you straight, we get terrible calcite, and cilit bang just shifts the girly stuff and leaves the hard deposits almost untouched. Put AF on it, and it fizzes like a mad thing. A quick rub with an old toothbrush, and the calcite is gone, gone, gone.

Also use it to clean the alloys on your car ,shift brake dust in seconds at a fraction of the cost of wheel cleaner

Is hard water any worse for your body than soft?

and most people have it in the house at any given time.

I've never heard of this other stuff let alone got it in the house.

Hard water is supposed to be better for you health wise.

AF is simply Hydrochloric acid. It can sometimes be a useful chem to have around. I got thru a couple of litres conditioning the new concrete floor prior to painting it.

I put bicarb in with vinegar, goes off like a rocket though.
Someone brought me over some of those wire wool things you leave in the kettle they really help. I've never seen them for sale round here.

OK, can anyone tell me the point of adding bicarb to vinegar to make a cleaning agent?

Chemically, I can't see it. (Mind you it has been a few decades since I did my Chemistry education.)

Bicarb is a sodium ion tacked onto HCO3. The fizz is about freeing off the CO2, and in the process reducing the acid to what? Sodium acetate?

Chemical explanation here please?

Agua fuerte is best. When we had our gas boiler serviced the man asked me to go to the shop and buy 2 bottles and he was an official junkers tech. Careful around stainless steel/chrome or it stains it forever!

Vinegar is good for the kettle or cleaning a filter or showerhead.

NaHCO3 + CH3COOH → CH3COONa + H2O + CO2

.

Easy for you to say.
This is something my mother used to do and I know others have used this method.
Does the above formula equal waste of time doing it?

Yes it is a waste of time for removing cal. The acid dissolves the cal. If you add bicarb it neutralises the acid so you have no acid left to dissolve the cal.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.

Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.

The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.