bil

Where do I stand? Quite simply, I'm sick of people who break the law time and time again, who kill and torture and abuse, and then when they are cornered, they start screaming that they want a fair and legal treatment.

Aren't you one of the people who decrys the human rights and demands common sense? Shooting a rat in a drain makes perfect sense.

I gather his son is lying critically ill in hospital. Were I the doctor, I'd take one look, and say "Leave this one to die, there's an ingrowing toenail in the next bed that needs dealing with."

the troubadour

Just how much better the new regeme will be or in fact if they are any better we shall see.
Also if Libya will remain unified as a nation. Nato supported a rather unknown factor rather similar to the regeme in power in Afghanistan in that it has limited support outside of its tribal following.

bil

What have I learned from Iraq? I learned that the Yanks and the UK warmongers are way too stupid to learn from history, and way too arrogant to think they needed to deal with one, legitimate struggle with Afghanistan before they picked an illegitimate one with Iraq.

I learned that the 'Great and the good' who tell us to be honest and pay our taxes, are benefit thieves who lie to Parliament with impunity, that the opposition were too gutless to even challenge the Lies about WMDs. I have learned that the Yanks are desperate to run away from Afghanistan before the Taliban throw them out just like they had their arrogant pasty arses kicked out of Vietnam.

I can hear them shouting "Run away, run away!" from here.

As for Libya? Ghaddafi was torturing and butchering his own people, gunning them down if they dared to protest about it.

Here at least we can see the evidence with our own eyes, and had we done nothing, then frankly the UN might as well be disbanded.

There were no WMDs in Iraq, Saddam was doing what he was told, and we were dragged into that by lying dishonest scum Americans who treat us like fools, and a lying weasel of a prime Minister who spent all his spare time praying and licking Bush's arse.


Is that enough difference for you?

licinius

Can I ask why you consider Afghanistan to be a legitimate struggle? Check the date on this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2017044.stm

You talk about Gaddafi's treatment of his own people, wsn't the same said about Saddam? (Even though the Kurds were not his own people). It was only after he was removed from power, that it was publicly discovered just how bad Iraq was & that it needed ruling with an iron fist. Is the same not true of Libya? Is the civil war that we have created going to end overnight, or as with Iraq, will we still be discussing it in ten years time?

HBG

I watched the videos and photos and wasn't too shocked, but maybe a little saddened. It really brought home to me the belief that we're but a small step away from the savages we once were many thousands of years ago.

One photo showed the injured Gadaffa thrown into an ambulance and smiling rebels climbed aboard afterwards. When he emerged at the other end, he had been shot in the head from close range.

Those smiling rebels are savages, if you choose to call them brave freedom fighters, you would be wrong.

bil

I consider it legit, if what we were told was true, and the Taliban there had initiated 9/11. Rooting them out would, IMO be justified.

Re the quote, there is no level of corruption so great or so bad that it would surprise me, and if you could produce evidence to show me that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11 then I would change my openion as to its legitimacy. Even that wouldn't greatly surprise me.

I have no faith in any government of any stripe.

As for Saddam, he was under control, he had destroyed the WMDs. A war wasn't necessary, he could have been contained and extracted without creating the slaughter that we did. Iraq was TRASHED. Power stations, water treatment plants, every ministry that ran the country, the army was disbanded, the police effectively and the border guards. I don't think there was a single institution left capable of functioning. Except oil, possibly????

bil

There is no difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, it just depends which label they wear.

As I say, Gadaffi broke the law, spat on it and danced, laughing on the fragments. His end was exactly what he deserved, being shot like the vermin he was. For someone like him to then expect a fair and just treatment, especially from the people he abused for so long, is ludicrous.

EllisG

damn, this having an opinion and airing it thing is easier than I imagined

ditto to what bil said (see all of the above)


oh by the way HBG you can probably substitute the words "a few hours" for the words "many thousands of years" technology to kill does not change the savage intent. Our minds and natural instincts are those of a hunter gatherer, our education fools us into believing we are different from cavemen, far too early in human evolution for this to change. Live a lie, the illusion is far better than the reality...I can recommend retail therapy or narcotics depending on preference

JLFS

That is what his "subjects" considered fair.

bil

Too funny dude, too funny!

Dick Dasterdly

As I understood it the purpose of NATO getting involved was to protect the civilian population from the actions of Gadaffis thugs and merceneries.

Officially Gadaffi himself was not a target, nor capturing him the purpose of the action.

However unofficially, I have little doubt what was quite understandably going through their minds during the course of the action, just as they appeared well satisfied with the end result.

bil

Been watching the end of the rat on Spanish TV. You'd never see images like this on UK TV that's far too sanitised.

Personally, I prefer seeing the harsher images. Helps people to realise the true impact of violence if they see some blood. Might put them off doing it themselves.

HBG

Gadaffi's death is to be applauded, but not the manner of it; that seems to be the informed opinion from the civilised world. Not surprisingly, the most graphic images in the British press appear in the Daily Mail, it is what their readership expect and thousands of them have added comments, often expressing their glee at the scenes.

If cavemen could read, that's the newspaper they would be gloating over. I was going to write that I didn't have the courage to look at the Sun, but then decided I did, but just looked at the headlines.

That's For Lockerby is what they said, beside the face of a bloodied human head suffering during torture.

Thank God most of us don't agree with such savagery.

licinius

It's easy to prove that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11, how many people still think Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the attacks? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...military-trial

Kuwaiti born Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is linked with Al Qaeda but not the Taliban. Please remember that Taliban was the name of the Afghan government up until 2001.

There were two reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan. The first was to build the worlds longest oil pipeline from Azerbaijan and Central Asia through Afghanistan to Pakistan & India.

The second reason is in preparation for a two fronted war against Iran. The US now has bases either side of Iran & has wanted the war with Iran since the Shah was overthrown in 1979.

licinius

Article 13 of the Geneva Convention

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Whether you agree with the savagery or not, whether you wanted to see him dead or not, it was a criminal act.