Not by first-hand experience then, I take it?

Clearly, since everyone and their dog knows about the existence of freemasons

That's also the general understanding, but then many organisations have secrets, including almost every corporate entity out there.

Still not first-hand experience then?

Not that I am looking to tear a hole into freemasons, but how can you be so sure that it is not bigoted given the amount of bigotry that one runs across in life on an almost day-to-day basis?

I guess that unless you are a freemason, you cannot really defend them credibly (because of the closed nature of the organisation) and if you are then no one (that is not a freemason or a personal acquaintance) will really believe you, since there is so much secrecy attributed to the movement.

And that, I believe is the problem with secrecy in general. It breeds mistrust.

(Edited for clarity)

That's the problem. It's not that there are secrets in Freemasonry that there is mistrust, it's because you (and even many many Freemasons themselves) are not privy to those secrets that you assume it's for self serving purposes and therefore you mistrust something you know absolutely nothing about with no logical reason to have mistrust.....basically freemasonry is mistrusted because of ignorance.

What you might not know about freemasonry is that a refuse collector could be master over a Lord....in my opinion any society that promotes that sort of equality cannot be a bad thing. Maybe you know more than I..but I seriously doubt that. I used the word allegedly because personally I don't think it's anyone's business whether I am a Freemason or not regardless of the fact that the society does allow Freemasons to divulge the fact that they have been installed into the craft.

Something doesn't survive over 2 millenium and spread across the world by broadcasting openly the secret of it's success.

I only wanted to know about lodges there are operating in Spain!

[QUOTE=Wendy Nesbeth]
We lived in Tehran. Cant remember the road but it was an amazing life. He worked directly for the British government but indirectly for the Shar.

And i refer you back to my original post.

[QUOTE=rugbymatt] Where we lived was near the oil fields, the place I was born in also Awaz & Haftkell (not sure of the spelling) I remember my parents having many servants, I & my sister had a nanny, my sister was born in Lincoln, in the UK

But I had to come back to the UK to go to boarding school I think when I was 10 or 11 years of age.

Happy days.

Wendy x

[QUOTE=Wendy Nesbeth]

I was also born there, in Tehran.

I will phone dad tomorrow and ask where.

[QUOTE=rugbymatt] Won't it be in your passport?

[QUOTE=busterboy]

It just says Tehran babe.

[QUOTE=rugbymatt]
Is that Tehran babe or does it state 'Tehran Babe'? I'm inclined towards the latter.

Ps photo of me (sort of) in the gallery.

[QUOTE=busterboy]

That would be sooooo cool wouldn't it?


I'm in a bit of a strop at the mo.

I'm the only one who cooks in my house and the OH has a night off and i asked her to put the HOME MADE sausages on to cook and she forgot!

I made them by my own fair hands, made sweet potato mash and red wine gravy and she cant even cook the bangers!



What hat do you think you are wearing?!?!

Still unhappy about the sevens!

[QUOTE=rugbymatt)



That would be sooooo cool wouldn't it?


I'm in a bit of a strop at the mo.

I'm the only one who cooks in my house and the OH has a night off and i asked her to put the HOME MADE sausages on to cook and she forgot!

I made them by my own fair hands, made sweet potato mash and red wine gravy and she cant even cook the bangers!






That was weird.....!


Trade her in, a man needs his sausages!

[QUOTE=busterboy][QUOTE=rugbymatt)



That would be sooooo cool wouldn't it?


I'm in a bit of a strop at the mo.

I'm the only one who cooks in my house and the OH has a night off and i asked her to put the HOME MADE sausages on to cook and she forgot!

I made them by my own fair hands, made sweet potato mash and red wine gravy and she cant even cook the bangers!






That was weird.....!


Trade her in, a man needs his sausages! [/QUOTE]



It was in ref to your pic in the photo thingy!

I'll be interested in knowing whether you find a mason group in Spain

I know quite a few people in England that belong to it, but I've never known anyone in Spain that is a member.. It seems that the biggest group of Spanish masons started in France by people in exile

The catholic church is opposed to it and it used to have a lot of power in Spain, but this isn't so anymore so I wonder if new groups have been created.. I'll look into this..

Ahh, well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. Mistrust is a natural initial reaction to unfamiliar people and unfamiliar situations and moreso when there is a resistance to any form of disclosure to allow trust to be built up. Trust is a two-way street. Not illogical by any means, just basic survival instincts.

There are no assumptions made, simply that you cannot form conclusions when you don't know the full facts. There is a big difference there.

I also don't judge people by what they do in life for gainful employment, but by their actions and character overall.

Anyway, it was never my intention to start a long debate on this, nor (in my opinion) is there really any need to get defensive over being a freemason, or not. I wouldn't worry excessively over whether other people are interested in whether a particular individual is a freemason, or not. You can't control their way of thinking and as long as it has no direct affect on you, who's buisness it is, or isn't, also does not come into it.

Like I said, I judge people on their actions and my credo is very much live and let live. I only would ever take a negative approach to freemasons if it had negative effects on myself, other people, or society in general. Since currently I hav no evidence that they do, it matters not to me one way or the other.