EU Assistance to Spain
Apr 15th 2014 | 8:08 am
#46
Yaaarp
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,354
From: Trying to get the hell outta Spain!
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
If you drive (as I have from) Malaga to Alicante with a stop over in La Manga you will travel on miles of beautiful empty roads built with EU money that are completely redundant.
I maintain that the Spain's regional debt problem comes from its system of autonomous regional government. Allowing the regions to borrow on the open markets to fund vanity projects that the people don't need and can't afford.
Spain went on a spending spree, once poor and suddenly offered billions it couldn't handle it. No different from an individual. How many pop stars, footballers from shite backgrounds suddenly earn a fortune and then their life turns to poo.
Spain as a democracy is a young country. Lot's of guile is needed to live under communism and habits die hard.
Spain needs to take control of its regions, get rid of its powerful, albeit elected feudal mayoral system and wake up to the challenges of the 21st century.
I maintain that the Spain's regional debt problem comes from its system of autonomous regional government. Allowing the regions to borrow on the open markets to fund vanity projects that the people don't need and can't afford.
Spain went on a spending spree, once poor and suddenly offered billions it couldn't handle it. No different from an individual. How many pop stars, footballers from shite backgrounds suddenly earn a fortune and then their life turns to poo.
Spain as a democracy is a young country. Lot's of guile is needed to live under communism and habits die hard.
Spain needs to take control of its regions, get rid of its powerful, albeit elected feudal mayoral system and wake up to the challenges of the 21st century.
Apr 15th 2014 | 8:48 am
#47
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
If you drive (as I have from) Malaga to Alicante with a stop over in La Manga you will travel on miles of beautiful empty roads built with EU money that are completely redundant.
I maintain that the Spain's regional debt problem comes from its system of autonomous regional government. Allowing the regions to borrow on the open markets to fund vanity projects that the people don't need and can't afford.
Spain went on a spending spree, once poor and suddenly offered billions it couldn't handle it. No different from an individual. How many pop stars, footballers from shite backgrounds suddenly earn a fortune and then their life turns to poo.
Spain as a democracy is a young country. Lot's of guile is needed to live under communism and habits die hard.
Spain needs to take control of its regions, get rid of its powerful, albeit elected feudal mayoral system and wake up to the challenges of the 21st century.
I maintain that the Spain's regional debt problem comes from its system of autonomous regional government. Allowing the regions to borrow on the open markets to fund vanity projects that the people don't need and can't afford.
Spain went on a spending spree, once poor and suddenly offered billions it couldn't handle it. No different from an individual. How many pop stars, footballers from shite backgrounds suddenly earn a fortune and then their life turns to poo.
Spain as a democracy is a young country. Lot's of guile is needed to live under communism and habits die hard.
Spain needs to take control of its regions, get rid of its powerful, albeit elected feudal mayoral system and wake up to the challenges of the 21st century.
Apr 15th 2014 | 8:50 am
#48
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Simple answer ,eh ?
Have you seen the figures regarding Spanish debt ?
Granted the infrastructure is better than it would have been, but would they have run the country in such an irresponsible manner and got so deep in the mire if they'd continued plodding gently along as they were with guaranteed income from tourism and agriculture ?
Have you seen the figures regarding Spanish debt ?
Granted the infrastructure is better than it would have been, but would they have run the country in such an irresponsible manner and got so deep in the mire if they'd continued plodding gently along as they were with guaranteed income from tourism and agriculture ?
Apr 15th 2014 | 7:36 pm
#49
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
So a very similar situation really
The problem for Spain is their income has been severely reduced because:
1. In 2005, 50% of Spain's income came from property sales tax. Property sales are now only a small fraction of the 2005 levels
2. Fewer people are earning and paying income tax - and they also need to be subsidised, even if the subsidies are very small
More employment needed and house prices should be encouraged to fall further so to stimulate sales!
Apr 15th 2014 | 9:51 pm
#50
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
In 2012 UK public debt was at 90% and Spain was at 85%.
So a very similar situation really
The problem for Spain is their income has been severely reduced because:
1. In 2005, 50% of Spain's income came from property sales tax. Property sales are now only a small fraction of the 2005 levels
2. Fewer people are earning and paying income tax - and they also need to be subsidised, even if the subsidies are very small
More employment needed and house prices should be encouraged to fall further so to stimulate sales!
So a very similar situation really
The problem for Spain is their income has been severely reduced because:
1. In 2005, 50% of Spain's income came from property sales tax. Property sales are now only a small fraction of the 2005 levels
2. Fewer people are earning and paying income tax - and they also need to be subsidised, even if the subsidies are very small
More employment needed and house prices should be encouraged to fall further so to stimulate sales!
Apr 15th 2014 | 9:56 pm
#51
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Apr 15th 2014 | 10:26 pm
#52
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Even on the Costa Del Sol, a 2 bed flat will be priced around 120-200k euros. Not exactly cheap, but they were going at 250-350k in 2005
20 years ago, a 2 bed flat in the CDS would cost about the same price as a nice new car. So they can still fall a lot further. I would say 80k euros would represent good value for money, but 40k for one of the flats that they built in the middle of nowhere would make sense
Up here in Oviedo. A 3-4 bed flat in the city centre will cost 300-500k euros. Much more than in my home town in the UK. 200-250k would seem like good value to me
If they fall to those levels then I will buy
Apr 15th 2014 | 11:47 pm
#53
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
http://www.surinenglish.com/20140411...404111051.html
Apr 15th 2014 | 11:59 pm
#54
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Then there are all the millions missing from the corruption on ERE schemes.
Most recent corruption/fraud scandals in Andalucia are with training courses for the unemployed. Some are being investigated for misappropriation of 40 million of these funds.
The latest is that politicians from the PP are asking the Junta what happened to the 2000 million euro for these schemes. This massive amount will have been money from the EU too
http://www.diariosur.es/20140416/loc...404160940.html
Most recent corruption/fraud scandals in Andalucia are with training courses for the unemployed. Some are being investigated for misappropriation of 40 million of these funds.
The latest is that politicians from the PP are asking the Junta what happened to the 2000 million euro for these schemes. This massive amount will have been money from the EU too
http://www.diariosur.es/20140416/loc...404160940.html
Apr 16th 2014 | 12:08 am
#55
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Another example of a failed project. The new AVE line. Cancelled after spending €280million
http://www.surinenglish.com/20140411...404111051.html
http://www.surinenglish.com/20140411...404111051.html
Surely you should aplaud them for cancelling now that they can't afford it? The world is very different now to what it was 7-8 years ago when the project was planned
You can't criticise them both ways. You criticise them if they do it, then you criticise them if they don't do it
Apr 16th 2014 | 6:52 am
#56
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Hold on a minute
Surely you should aplaud them for cancelling now that they can't afford it? The world is very different now to what it was 7-8 years ago when the project was planned
You can't criticise them both ways. You criticise them if they do it, then you criticise them if they don't do it
Surely you should aplaud them for cancelling now that they can't afford it? The world is very different now to what it was 7-8 years ago when the project was planned
You can't criticise them both ways. You criticise them if they do it, then you criticise them if they don't do it
They still had the option to cancel in 2010, well into the crisis.
Instead they opted to take out a loan and go ahead.
Apr 16th 2014 | 7:49 am
#57
Thread Starter
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 400
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Simple answer ,eh ?
Have you seen the figures regarding Spanish debt ?
Granted the infrastructure is better than it would have been, but would they have run the country in such an irresponsible manner and got so deep in the mire if they'd continued plodding gently along as they were with guaranteed income from tourism and agriculture ?
Have you seen the figures regarding Spanish debt ?
Granted the infrastructure is better than it would have been, but would they have run the country in such an irresponsible manner and got so deep in the mire if they'd continued plodding gently along as they were with guaranteed income from tourism and agriculture ?
