EU Assistance to Spain
Apr 15th 2014 | 12:28 am
#17
Thread Starter
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 400
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
I readily acknowledge that the original intention was well meant, with Spain still lagging behind most of Europe after the Franco years.
However it is the end result which I question ?
Compare it for instance to a guy who has plodded steadily along in his 9 to 5 job, then suddenly come up on the lottery and lost all sense of proportion, reason and common sense, blowing money like there was no tomorrow.
Then suddenly he woke up one day and found not only that it had all gone but he was deep in the mire as well and no longer knew how to face the consequences.
Whereas if he had just kept plodding along he would never have been rich, but there again never missed what he never had or lost all sense of reason and common sense.
However it is the end result which I question ?
Compare it for instance to a guy who has plodded steadily along in his 9 to 5 job, then suddenly come up on the lottery and lost all sense of proportion, reason and common sense, blowing money like there was no tomorrow.
Then suddenly he woke up one day and found not only that it had all gone but he was deep in the mire as well and no longer knew how to face the consequences.
Whereas if he had just kept plodding along he would never have been rich, but there again never missed what he never had or lost all sense of reason and common sense.
Here I can take my step-ladder, climb into my car, drive a few kilometers and actually touch the overhead cables for the high-speed line linking Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, partially built with EU money.
I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway which is choc-a-bloc with the trade of all the nations of the EU and Dutch caravans, and which, by using some money from the EU was upgraded from a second rate goat track into the vital artery it is today.
When I see the infrastructure round here, to use your analogy of a pools-winner - it's like getting up in the morning throwing back the curtains and finding the Ferrari still in the driveway.
Apr 15th 2014 | 12:57 am
#18
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Perhaps it is the fact that EU money hasn't trickled down to fix that tangle of a rat's nest of electrical cables at the end of your street that colours your views.
Here I can take my step-ladder, climb into my car, drive a few kilometers and actually touch the overhead cables for the high-speed line linking Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, partially built with EU money.
I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway which is choc-a-bloc with the trade of all the nations of the EU and Dutch caravans, and which, by using some money from the EU was upgraded from a second rate goat track into the vital artery it is today.
When I see the infrastructure round here, to use your analogy of a pools-winner - it's like getting up in the morning throwing back the curtains and finding the Ferrari still in the driveway.
Here I can take my step-ladder, climb into my car, drive a few kilometers and actually touch the overhead cables for the high-speed line linking Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, partially built with EU money.
I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway which is choc-a-bloc with the trade of all the nations of the EU and Dutch caravans, and which, by using some money from the EU was upgraded from a second rate goat track into the vital artery it is today.
When I see the infrastructure round here, to use your analogy of a pools-winner - it's like getting up in the morning throwing back the curtains and finding the Ferrari still in the driveway.
is it an idea for a fun day out for BES members
Apr 15th 2014 | 12:58 am
#19
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,507
From: On Top of the World
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Perhaps it is the fact that EU money hasn't trickled down to fix that tangle of a rat's nest of electrical cables at the end of your street that colours your views.
Here I can take my step-ladder, climb into my car, drive a few kilometers and actually touch the overhead cables for the high-speed line linking Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, partially built with EU money.
I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway which is choc-a-bloc with the trade of all the nations of the EU and Dutch caravans, and which, by using some money from the EU was upgraded from a second rate goat track into the vital artery it is today.
When I see the infrastructure round here, to use your analogy of a pools-winner - it's like getting up in the morning throwing back the curtains and finding the Ferrari still in the driveway.
Here I can take my step-ladder, climb into my car, drive a few kilometers and actually touch the overhead cables for the high-speed line linking Paris, Barcelona and Madrid, partially built with EU money.
I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway which is choc-a-bloc with the trade of all the nations of the EU and Dutch caravans, and which, by using some money from the EU was upgraded from a second rate goat track into the vital artery it is today.
When I see the infrastructure round here, to use your analogy of a pools-winner - it's like getting up in the morning throwing back the curtains and finding the Ferrari still in the driveway.
Unfortunately one swallow makes a summer NOT.
Billions have also been wasted on hi-speed lines and stations in the middle of nowhere and already abandoned, while ones which should have been given priority are now unlikely to be completed.
I recall a study by a Barcelona group stated that there was no way the cost of the new system, around 80 billion euros, could be justified, especially with only 5% of the population using rail travel on a regular basis.
Also the saving of time on many routes was only marginal and achieved partly by bi-passing towns which previously had a service, but now don't anymore.
Spain already had a very extensive rail system some of which was sacrificed in order to justify the new system, with many towns losing their services altogether.
Likewise with many of the new road systems hardly if ever used and now virtually bankrupt.
Also numerous other white elephant projects.
Unfortunately the trend seems to have been to build on impulse and think later with very little research having gone into the feasibility of many projects.
I don't know if anyone has ever tried to tot it all up, but the total amounts wasted and misappropriated, both EU funds and Spanish, must be phenomenal and I'd be surprised if any other EU country even comes close in that respect
Apr 15th 2014 | 1:17 am
#20
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,143
From: London (mainly)/Oliva
Apr 15th 2014 | 1:37 am
#21
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
two tubes of toothpaste said
"I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway"
Sounds an idyllic location to live the dream
"I can then walk just a few hundred yards and slap a concrete stanchion supporting the E15 motorway"
Sounds an idyllic location to live the dream
Apr 15th 2014 | 1:43 am
#22
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 12,053
From: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Were it all so eh ?
Unfortunately one swallow makes a summer NOT.
Billions have also been wasted on hi-speed lines and stations in the middle of nowhere and already abandoned, while ones which should have been given priority are now unlikely to be completed.
I recall a study by a Barcelona group stated that there was no way the cost of the new system, around 80 billion euros, could be justified, especially with only 5% of the population using rail travel on a regular basis.
Also the saving of time on many routes was only marginal and achieved partly by bi-passing towns which previously had a service, but now don't anymore.
Spain already had a very extensive rail system some of which was sacrificed in order to justify the new system, with many towns losing their services altogether.
Likewise with many of the new road systems hardly if ever used and now virtually bankrupt.
Also numerous other white elephant projects.
Unfortunately the trend seems to have been to build on impulse and think later with very little research having gone into the feasibility of many projects.
I don't know if anyone has ever tried to tot it all up, but the total amounts wasted and misappropriated, both EU funds and Spanish, must be phenomenal and I'd be surprised if any other EU country even comes close in that respect
Unfortunately one swallow makes a summer NOT.
Billions have also been wasted on hi-speed lines and stations in the middle of nowhere and already abandoned, while ones which should have been given priority are now unlikely to be completed.
I recall a study by a Barcelona group stated that there was no way the cost of the new system, around 80 billion euros, could be justified, especially with only 5% of the population using rail travel on a regular basis.
Also the saving of time on many routes was only marginal and achieved partly by bi-passing towns which previously had a service, but now don't anymore.
Spain already had a very extensive rail system some of which was sacrificed in order to justify the new system, with many towns losing their services altogether.
Likewise with many of the new road systems hardly if ever used and now virtually bankrupt.
Also numerous other white elephant projects.
Unfortunately the trend seems to have been to build on impulse and think later with very little research having gone into the feasibility of many projects.
I don't know if anyone has ever tried to tot it all up, but the total amounts wasted and misappropriated, both EU funds and Spanish, must be phenomenal and I'd be surprised if any other EU country even comes close in that respect
meanwhile a large number of people are caught by planning blight and can't sell their homes - not that anyone cares of course.
Apr 15th 2014 | 1:52 am
#23
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 400
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
You really do have an unrivalled ability to misrepresent peoples words.
Enjoy your cruise. Please God it doesn't have wifi.
Apr 15th 2014 | 1:59 am
#24
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,824
From: Living in a good place
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Except I don't know how to
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:01 am
#25
Yaaarp
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,354
From: Trying to get the hell outta Spain!
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
There was a documentary on TV recently that put an estimate of around 400 billion Euros of constructions that were never necessary in Spain including airports, roads, buildings, etc. Anyone who bothers to watch the news or read the papers over here knows that these were all built in areas where PP were in charge and the kickbacks from the construction went into the pockets and slush funds of the PP. And lets not forget the 23 billion needed to pay for the bailout of Bankia.... www.spaininthenews.blogspot.com
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:13 am
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
There was a documentary on TV recently that put an estimate of around 400 billion Euros of constructions that were never necessary in Spain including airports, roads, buildings, etc. Anyone who bothers to watch the news or read the papers over here knows that these were all built in areas where PP were in charge and the kickbacks from the construction went into the pockets and slush funds of the PP. And lets not forget the 23 billion needed to pay for the bailout of Bankia.... www.spaininthenews.blogspot.com
He had a very nice BMW too
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:20 am
#27
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,584
From: Hampshire coast
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
perhaps the same study group should be let loose on the UK's HS2, which to the public looks just like a Spanish white elephant. And only the rich will be able to afford it. In fact the man appointed to head the project is already champing at the bit to get started without a single piece of planning permission.
meanwhile a large number of people are caught by planning blight and can't sell their homes - not that anyone cares of course.
meanwhile a large number of people are caught by planning blight and can't sell their homes - not that anyone cares of course.
I can't for the life of me understand how the justifications for HS2 are arrived at.
Sure it will employ a lot of workers to build it, but after that???
All I've heard is that it will enable business people to 'be more productive' - just because it will shave half hour off their journey. Seems a very dubious reason to me. In fact I'm not at all convinced about the benefits of any high speed internal transport projects - bearing in mind the potential of modern communications.
End of rant.
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:21 am
#28
Yaaarp
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,354
From: Trying to get the hell outta Spain!
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:31 am
#29
FreeThinker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,702
From: the moors and levels
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Bit off thread, but as you mentioned it...
I can't for the life of me understand how the justifications for HS2 are arrived at.
Sure it will employ a lot of workers to build it, but after that???
All I've heard is that it will enable business people to 'be more productive' - just because it will shave half hour off their journey. Seems a very dubious reason to me. In fact I'm not at all convinced about the benefits of any high speed internal transport projects - bearing in mind the potential of modern communications.
End of rant.
I can't for the life of me understand how the justifications for HS2 are arrived at.
Sure it will employ a lot of workers to build it, but after that???
All I've heard is that it will enable business people to 'be more productive' - just because it will shave half hour off their journey. Seems a very dubious reason to me. In fact I'm not at all convinced about the benefits of any high speed internal transport projects - bearing in mind the potential of modern communications.
End of rant.
Apr 15th 2014 | 2:33 am
#30
Thread Starter
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 400
Re: EU Assistance to Spain
Were it all so eh ?
Unfortunately one swallow makes a summer NOT.
Billions have also been wasted on hi-speed lines and stations in the middle of nowhere and already abandoned, while ones which should have been given priority are now unlikely to be completed.
I recall a study by a Barcelona group stated that there was no way the cost of the new system, around 80 billion euros, could be justified, especially with only 5% of the population using rail travel on a regular basis.
Also the saving of time on many routes was only marginal and achieved partly by bi-passing towns which previously had a service, but now don't anymore.
Spain already had a very extensive rail system some of which was sacrificed in order to justify the new system, with many towns losing their services altogether.
Likewise with many of the new road systems hardly if ever used and now virtually bankrupt.
Also numerous other white elephant projects.
Unfortunately the trend seems to have been to build on impulse and think later with very little research having gone into the feasibility of many projects.
I don't know if anyone has ever tried to tot it all up, but the total amounts wasted and misappropriated, both EU funds and Spanish, must be phenomenal and I'd be surprised if any other EU country even comes close in that respect
Unfortunately one swallow makes a summer NOT.
Billions have also been wasted on hi-speed lines and stations in the middle of nowhere and already abandoned, while ones which should have been given priority are now unlikely to be completed.
I recall a study by a Barcelona group stated that there was no way the cost of the new system, around 80 billion euros, could be justified, especially with only 5% of the population using rail travel on a regular basis.
Also the saving of time on many routes was only marginal and achieved partly by bi-passing towns which previously had a service, but now don't anymore.
Spain already had a very extensive rail system some of which was sacrificed in order to justify the new system, with many towns losing their services altogether.
Likewise with many of the new road systems hardly if ever used and now virtually bankrupt.
Also numerous other white elephant projects.
Unfortunately the trend seems to have been to build on impulse and think later with very little research having gone into the feasibility of many projects.
I don't know if anyone has ever tried to tot it all up, but the total amounts wasted and misappropriated, both EU funds and Spanish, must be phenomenal and I'd be surprised if any other EU country even comes close in that respect
There was a documentary on TV recently that put an estimate of around 400 billion Euros of constructions that were never necessary in Spain including airports, roads, buildings, etc. Anyone who bothers to watch the news or read the papers over here knows that these were all built in areas where PP were in charge and the kickbacks from the construction went into the pockets and slush funds of the PP. And lets not forget the 23 billion needed to pay for the bailout of Bankia.... www.spaininthenews.blogspot.com
For the period 2007-13 Spain only received €35 billion from the EU - hardly enough to finance all of Spain's projects.
If you have a specific project in mind that was built with EU money and that was a failure I would like to hear of it. Please give details of the EU contribution.
You're broadening this out to include all Spanish projects.
