Demolition is proving difficult
Oct 10th 2013, 1:45 am
#91
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
Yes, I agree - but no matter how long he gets, it won't do anything to help the people stuck with illegal and unsaleable properties, which is the worst thing about it.
Personally, I agree with your earlier suggestion that those properties built on protected land should be demolished and full compensation paid to the buyers (provided they can prove they bought in good faith and a building licence for an actual dwelling and not some kind of agricultural building had been issued), with the assets of anybody convicted of involvement in these scams being confiscated to help pay for it.
However, there are so many properties built on land that wouldn't be classified as protected, just rustico, that demolition wouldn't really be a realistic option as the money just wouldn't be available to compensate the buena fe buyers. In those cases (unfortunately for the environment) I think the Junta should just legalise them, but draw a very clear line in the sand and put in place much stricter controls to ensure that more uncontrolled building doesn't result. They really should have been carrying out regular inspections in areas like the Axarquia and the Costa de la Luz to make sure that any construction that was going on was fully legal - what's the point of allowing building to progress to completion and even be sold and then turning round and saying they are illegal, retrospectively (the buildings weren't exactly invisible whilst they were being constructed, were they?).
I do have to say, though, that I draw a distinction between those people who bought in good faith and were assured that they had all the required bases covered, and those who bought something they knew to be not quite right (eg a building that only had a licence for a stable or similar but a house complete with garage and swimming pool was actually built) and thought they'd be OK if they could get away with it for more than 4 years. In that second group they could demolish every one of them without compensation, as far as I'm concerned.
Personally, I agree with your earlier suggestion that those properties built on protected land should be demolished and full compensation paid to the buyers (provided they can prove they bought in good faith and a building licence for an actual dwelling and not some kind of agricultural building had been issued), with the assets of anybody convicted of involvement in these scams being confiscated to help pay for it.
However, there are so many properties built on land that wouldn't be classified as protected, just rustico, that demolition wouldn't really be a realistic option as the money just wouldn't be available to compensate the buena fe buyers. In those cases (unfortunately for the environment) I think the Junta should just legalise them, but draw a very clear line in the sand and put in place much stricter controls to ensure that more uncontrolled building doesn't result. They really should have been carrying out regular inspections in areas like the Axarquia and the Costa de la Luz to make sure that any construction that was going on was fully legal - what's the point of allowing building to progress to completion and even be sold and then turning round and saying they are illegal, retrospectively (the buildings weren't exactly invisible whilst they were being constructed, were they?).
I do have to say, though, that I draw a distinction between those people who bought in good faith and were assured that they had all the required bases covered, and those who bought something they knew to be not quite right (eg a building that only had a licence for a stable or similar but a house complete with garage and swimming pool was actually built) and thought they'd be OK if they could get away with it for more than 4 years. In that second group they could demolish every one of them without compensation, as far as I'm concerned.
"Andalucia has more naves with swimming pools than probably any other part of Spain"
used to have the actual reference but ditched it when I pulled out of the Almeria house - will look for it at the weekend
That really sums up the problem though. And how many people realise that the spring they drink their lovely water from has the sewage from all the other illegal houses further up the hill leeching into it.
Oct 10th 2013, 7:46 pm
#92
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
North to Alaska was the song the gold diggers sang over a hundred years ago, South to Marbella would have been a similar song for the expats who flooded into the CDS in the early nineties. Both sets of foreigners arrived with the express intention to exploit the land. Ghost towns is what they left behind, when the gold ran out.
The Malaya corruption trial finished last week, after two years, in Marbella and 96 of the very top of Marbella society were convicted of the most unbelievable corruption. It barely registered in the press, with corruption now exposed at the highest government level.
So who was involved in the scandal? How cynical would it be to say Everyone? Including the expat gold diggers?
What about the expats turning Spanish cow sheds into illegal mansions with sparkling swimming pools where once stood shrubland with a few gnarled olive trees?
Several hundred Spanish mayors and other officials have gone to prison, but have the illegal activities stopped?
Of course they haven't, just reading a few of the posts on this little thread prove otherwise, Mitzyboy has given a perfect example of what is still happening, and the evidence is all around.
And throwing stones in glass houses is not a good idea.
The Malaya corruption trial finished last week, after two years, in Marbella and 96 of the very top of Marbella society were convicted of the most unbelievable corruption. It barely registered in the press, with corruption now exposed at the highest government level.
So who was involved in the scandal? How cynical would it be to say Everyone? Including the expat gold diggers?
What about the expats turning Spanish cow sheds into illegal mansions with sparkling swimming pools where once stood shrubland with a few gnarled olive trees?
Several hundred Spanish mayors and other officials have gone to prison, but have the illegal activities stopped?
Of course they haven't, just reading a few of the posts on this little thread prove otherwise, Mitzyboy has given a perfect example of what is still happening, and the evidence is all around.
And throwing stones in glass houses is not a good idea.
Oct 10th 2013, 9:18 pm
#93
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
Was wondering where you had got to HBG
Oct 10th 2013, 9:48 pm
#94
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Oct 10th 2013, 9:50 pm
#95
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Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
You were missed
Oct 10th 2013, 10:15 pm
#96
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
HBG post hit the nail on the head. the property scandal could not have happened without the connivance of indviduals from the mayors office to the local expat estate agent.
It was easy money for all.
How many estate agents have been taken to court ???
It was easy money for all.
How many estate agents have been taken to court ???
Oct 11th 2013, 1:21 am
#97
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
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Oct 11th 2013, 3:30 am
#98
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
Even if and estate agent is dodgy, the lawyer should pick up on any paper work that is not kosher. that is what his clients pay for, ie legal protection and service.
How may of those leeches have had their collar felt, that is more to the point.
Oct 11th 2013, 3:43 am
#99
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
You miss the point , they were all in it from the opportunists from essex who overnight became " estate agents ", the sales companies who operated across Europe,the developers, the builders, the lawyers, the planners. local politians etc.
All made varying amounts of money and all share in the blame.
I had a customer who bought in Marbella probably 12 years ago even then many of the problems were known but the party continued for a few years more.
Does anyone know of an estate agent of any nationality who said to a prospective client in these good times, do not buy there, it could be illegal etc etc.
I know someone who used to work for MRI and at their sales meeting ( end of week p up ) some used to gloat about how they had this poor punter to buy in this development or that one.
All they were interested in was their sales commission which for some ran into 6 figures.
All made varying amounts of money and all share in the blame.
I had a customer who bought in Marbella probably 12 years ago even then many of the problems were known but the party continued for a few years more.
Does anyone know of an estate agent of any nationality who said to a prospective client in these good times, do not buy there, it could be illegal etc etc.
I know someone who used to work for MRI and at their sales meeting ( end of week p up ) some used to gloat about how they had this poor punter to buy in this development or that one.
All they were interested in was their sales commission which for some ran into 6 figures.
Last edited by EMR; Oct 11th 2013 at 3:56 am. Reason: clarity
Oct 11th 2013, 3:50 am
#100
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: La Saucedilla, Chiclana
Posts: 920
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
All the funny business should have been sorted out by the lawyers, they are responsile for "legal" stuff, that is why they study the law.
Even if and estate agent is dodgy, the lawyer should pick up on any paper work that is not kosher. that is what his clients pay for, ie legal protection and service.
How may of those leeches have had their collar felt, that is more to the point.
Even if and estate agent is dodgy, the lawyer should pick up on any paper work that is not kosher. that is what his clients pay for, ie legal protection and service.
How may of those leeches have had their collar felt, that is more to the point.
Oct 11th 2013, 3:54 am
#101
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
They are the experts on law, and they should be sued, but I fear there is no justice.
Oct 11th 2013, 3:55 am
#102
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
A good lawyer never has to look for work, maybe the bent ones gravitated towards expats for a reason?
And normally, if you have a problem with a lawyer, you take it up with their professional body and they can get thrown off the books, it shouldnt cost anything. Of course, if they had broken laws as well, then they should be denounced through the police
Oct 11th 2013, 4:02 am
#103
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
So the agents etc who knowingly sold dodgy developments that would never be finished honestly earned their commissions and had no involement in the scandal.
The sky just darkened as a flock of flying pigs went buy.
The sky just darkened as a flock of flying pigs went buy.
Oct 11th 2013, 4:13 am
#104
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,081
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
Can I just say that I have two Spanish lawyers in my family, and they are not all bent, in fact most are not!
A good lawyer never has to look for work, maybe the bent ones gravitated towards expats for a reason?
And normally, if you have a problem with a lawyer, you take it up with their professional body and they can get thrown off the books, it shouldnt cost anything. Of course, if they had broken laws as well, then they should be denounced through the police
A good lawyer never has to look for work, maybe the bent ones gravitated towards expats for a reason?
And normally, if you have a problem with a lawyer, you take it up with their professional body and they can get thrown off the books, it shouldnt cost anything. Of course, if they had broken laws as well, then they should be denounced through the police
Do bent lawyers have a tattoo on their forehead or something like that.
One can never be sure, because all the local mayors, lawyers, politicians, officials etc that have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, all seemed as "unbent" as can be.
I suppose a bent lawyer etc, would keep it to him/herself, for obvious reasons.
And do you really expect us to believe that even in the best of families, whose reputation is impeccable, there are no "bent" ones.
Inaki Urdgagarin and Infanta Cristina are a good example, on the outside, respectable parents of 4 kiddies, well respected sportsman, and Dukes of the realm, but underneath, tax fiddlers, money launderers and downright thieves.
So if it can happen in the ROYAL family, the Kings daughter no less, I am sure it can happen in any family, even yours, and don´t forget all lawyers are straight until they get CAUGHT.
It is only then, they become a bent lawyer.
Oct 11th 2013, 4:18 am
#105
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Demolition is proving difficult
You were talking about all lawyers being bent, meaning that it must be institutionalised. It may be so in pockets of the South where there has been overdevelopment, but its probably limited to that and the odd exception
You cant blame all lawyers any more than you can blame all rich people for the economic crisis
Personally I blame those who encourage the poorest and most vulnerable people in society to gamble all their money away so that they can stay at home and take the moral high ground on internet forums
You cant blame all lawyers any more than you can blame all rich people for the economic crisis
Personally I blame those who encourage the poorest and most vulnerable people in society to gamble all their money away so that they can stay at home and take the moral high ground on internet forums
