If any parent wants their children to be educated and brought up in a foreign, they owe it too their chilren to be fluent and literate in the language of that country.
They should be able to help to educate and correct them when needed, they should be able to take them to doctors dentists etc, it is part of being a parent.

f they cannot do this after reasonable length of time in the country, they are failing them.

If you are a pensioner living off UK pension, it is not imperative to speak Spanish, and I for one would not critisize anyone for their shortcomings in that department, and no need for self flagelation.

For those with kiddies,it is a different ball game, LEARN SPANISH , and for thoses who will not then, maybe they should never have left the UK.

Otherwise as Cman said these children will be in a wilderness as young adults.

To say it's not imperative to learn spanish requires a bit of qualification, methinks... do they need to know all the subjunctives, pasados etc., no but should they (yes should!) attempt a few phrases, understand some basics yes I b!88dy well think so. Hence qualification required!
As for my own not so brilliant Spanish, well I can correct him because I've got the book and understand the principles he's being taught. My vocabulary remains bigger (just).......

When I said its not imperative to learn Spanish, I meant pensioners, not people with children.

Of course the day will come when the children will out shine the parents with the language, which is to be expected.

I did with my parents, because I was actively being taught English in shcool whereas they were picking it up, as they went along through mixing.

The difference being in my parents case, and others who went to the UK, the decisions to leave their own country was more a descision of necessity more than wanting a change so to speak.

Quite often these moves were not given the thought and planning that the Brits to Spain are able to do, because they come to Spain with many more advantages than the past immigrants to UK. (mainly money), which when moving to a different country is the difference between starting at the bottom or not having to.

It seems such a shame that the children of a lot of Brits, although the family have more advantages, they seem to miss out because in a lot of cases the parents, intentionally or not, are holding them back throught their own lack of impetus to watch Spanish TV and learn the language.

We're in dangerous territory once more when discussing expats bringing their children to Spain. If they have no choice in the matter, then there's nothing more to be said; but if they've moved to Spain for their own selfish reasons, without considering the impact on their children's lives, then there's plenty to be said.

Cman mentioned an unprepared expat child of 13 suddenly plonked into a Spanish school at such an important stage of his life. If it can be avoided, then, in my opinion, it should be.

Under school age children are an entirely different matter, they'll be fluent in the language within a few months and will leave the education process as 'Spanish' teenagers or adults, prepared for life in a Spanish speaking world.

For those who have achieved degree level, it doesn't matter which country they pursue their professional life in. If it was me, I would head for Beijing.

My OH went to a conference in Beijing a few months ago, beautiful modern city with great food apparently

I work with Chinese clients and they couldnt be more professional

I believe that China is the future. Strangely enough, I've come across many Chinese people here in Spain and I can certify that they make no attempt at integration whatsoever.

that is a question of upbringing
certain cultures embrace the learning as a means to an end, owner of my local shop is Indian and both her daughters have been to Uni. They embrace the learning of their parents, respect the future they can provide for themselves and their parents later in life if they have professional careers.

Little Johnny, the apple of dad's eye, it don't matter if he is a bit ropey at school, he won't really need all that cos they have to teach it to them from the curriculum set by the government. He'll get by just like his dad has.

Education can only come from a joint effort, ok so the kids pick up the foreign language quicker than the parents, they have less dross flying around in the brain box, less worries, concerns. They can help mum and dad whilst they are learning. That is family life. Either you have it or you don't

I think China has a future now they have embraced the western capitalist ways. They have had to grow up fast.

However, IMHO they rarely integrate, even the very well educated, I have worked with them in UK business and in the forces.
Is this because they see gwailo's as being heathen and smelly ?

If I were you I would avoid where cricketman lives like the plague it sounds dreadful - it's full of the kind of people I wouldn't want to associate with.

You have to wonder why he lives there - I haven't lived in a place like that and wouldn't. Why don't you move somewhere a bit better like the rest of us cricketman?

I was determined not to get into this thread

but as a parent of a teen & nearly teen & past private tutor of some teens whose parents don't speak Spanish, I agree wholeheartedly

For work reasons we have to be somewhere close to good national and international transport. Málaga is perfect for that.

Like I said, this area provides a good and reasonably cheap standard of living. The stories of those British young men dont effect me directly. After all, I used to live in London and had a great life there even though there are many thousands who just went rioting for a new pair of trainers

We have a much better life here than we did in Barcelona which was stressful, uncomfortable and expensive. One day we'd like to move to Asturias but it is a bit remote in terms of transport, so it will depend on a few things developing workwise first.

We would definitely go to Asturias if I had no family and my own flat in Valencia. I'm not really a beach person and also hate too hot weather. I enjoy more the green and fresh air, and there are also fantastic places in the Asturian coast: perfect mix of mountain and beach.

(and not too many ex pats there! )

I dont think there are many ex-pats in Valencia.

There are quite a few on this site

I was offered a job in Valencia last year. A good job too. But we came for the weekend and my OH didnt like it. Split between too touristy on one hand and soulless on the other, was the verdict.

It was August though, not the best time to visit

obviously you don't get out much, such a shame with all that sun,
are you a vampire ?