Covid update

Old Dec 24th 2021, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Covid update

From The Times

A third of Londoners are completely unvaccinated, as a surge of Omicron cases sweeps the capital.

The Prince of Wales yesterday spoke out against anti-vaccination conspiracy theories as he thanked volunteers and NHS staff at a vaccination centre.

Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said London’s lower take-up was “probably due to a number of things. London has an ethnically diverse population and it has been difficult to roll the vaccine out to some ethnic groups, so I’m sure that’s part of it. There’s a lot of poverty in parts of London, and that sort of thing also impacts on the take-up of vaccines.”


For various reasons there does seem to be a strong resistance to vaccination among some ethnic groups. Do Paul Hunter's comments make him a racist?

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Old Dec 24th 2021, 9:42 am
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
From The Times

A third of Londoners are completely unvaccinated, as a surge of Omicron cases sweeps the capital.

The Prince of Wales yesterday spoke out against anti-vaccination conspiracy theories as he thanked volunteers and NHS staff at a vaccination centre.

Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said London’s lower take-up was “probably due to a number of things. London has an ethnically diverse population and it has been difficult to roll the vaccine out to some ethnic groups, so I’m sure that’s part of it. There’s a lot of poverty in parts of London, and that sort of thing also impacts on the take-up of vaccines.”


For various reasons there does seem to be a strong resistance to vaccination among some ethnic groups. Do Paul Hunter's comments make him a racist?
As to P.Hunter (I don't know who he is) being racist, NO because he is partly correct.

As a lad of 15 we had the BCG injection. Was standard practice in the late 70's.

When both my children were born in 1992 and 94 respectively they were both given the BCG at birth as we lived in Southall, which at the time was around 95% Asian.
I asked why and was told that there were lots of TB cases in the hospital and in the local area. As well as the usual Measles, etc. Of which a very low proportion of the local population had been vaccinated against.
When they got to around 15 the schools they were in sent home the consent form which I refused and noted that they had already been done. The school did not believe us.

Polo was the other one, I can remember having that on a cube of sugar and NONE of my Asian friends at school had it.

So not racist, most of it comes down to how they were brought up, you also have to remember that there are a huge number of people in the Uk, who even though they may have been in the country for years, still don't speak the language.
Again as a lad, I used to go to my friends homes (and they mine) most of the Asian kids only spoke Hindi or whatever dialect at home, usually because their mothers could not speak English, as they only ever saw and spoke to other women from their own racial group.

Anyway back on topic, all of our local bars etc are now asking for the covid pass to enter, even the little 'shack' we go to, that has no inside seating, but we had already given them the box of chocs and a card, so I will just wave as we drive the Moke past (although they did say that they would probably close up if this came in).
One of our other haunts has decided to close at 5pm tonight and stay closed until sometime in the new year. Because even after the lockdowns and curfews, people have just changed their habits and rarely go out anymore.

Last edited by Barriej; Dec 24th 2021 at 9:49 am.
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Old Dec 24th 2021, 10:05 am
  #198  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
I had just seen it on BBC news on TV when I posted it - it was a short news item about how different countries were responding to the situation... Not a lot of detail, but it piqued my interest in the ethical arguments on either side.

But its easy to just search for it on the web....

​​​​​​ E.g

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...for-covid-care

I mentioned duty of care and the Hippocratic oath, (my personal interpretation) and this article shows that the doctors are against it, but the politicians are seriously considering it.

Also I mentioned the opposite side of the 'coin' i.e these unvaxed taking up hospital resources that have delayed other key treatments.

A conundrum...

I remain confused about this for the reasons I mentioned, and haven't chosen a 'side'.. and wonder what people think.

Jon
Australia’s peak doctors body has criticised an “unethical” proposal to charge unvaccinated people for their medical care that is being considered by the New South Wales government.

The state’s health minister, Brad Hazzard, confirmed the government was looking at forcing people who had not received the jab to pay for their medical bills if they required hospital treatment for Covid.

“This is an option under consideration by the NSW government,” Hazzard said in a statement on Wednesday evening after it was first reported by Sydney radio station 2GB.
So how will that work then??? Seeing as Australians already pay via the medicare system. My daughter pays so much each month and then pays for her treatment and is then refunded back a %.

Are they going to do the same with the indigenous population, most of whom are scattered across the vast empty parts of the country?
While you are at it Smokers, Alcoholics, Drug addicts, Drivers who text, don't wear seat belts, idiot climbers or walkers who get stuck up mountains, I could go on....

Also thousands die each year from flu... whats the difference there then???
I've never had a flu jab and never had flu (that I know of) will I have to pay if I catch it and end up in hospital??

I also have private medical insurance here in Spain, so Im not a drain on the health service anyway, If I decide not to have the boosters because I don't think they are helping (or Im fit and healthy and believe that I wont suffer too much if I catch it) what will they do? Im essentially paying for my treatment so it should not be withheld.

Or lets say the Uk decided to roll out something similar. All employed people pay for the health service, you can't make them pay as they are already... so can they then withdraw paying their NI contributions?

I don't want to make this comment but will

Didn't my grandparents fight wars to stop this sort of thing happening???
Freedom and the right to live in peace without persecution (thats probably bit harsh when you consider what happened during the last war, but you get my drift)

No more comments from me, Im getting fed up with the human race (might sign up for the Mars mission)

Happy Christmas anyway...
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Old Dec 24th 2021, 12:56 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Vaccine hesitancy amongst some groups has always been so, from Polio to Covid and all others.
Figures from last year suggest - "Vaccine hesitancy is highest for Black people, followed by Bangladeshi/Pakistani people."
Also - "the COVID-19 death rate for Black African men was 62 per 100,000 compared with 12 per 100,000 for White men. The rate for Bangladeshi men was 61 per 100,000. Black African women had the highest under-65 death rate of any ethnic group, with 27 deaths per 100,000, compared with seven per 100,000 White women. The rate for Pakistani women was also more than three times as high as the rate for White women, with 26 deaths per 100,000."
From the NHS -
https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-eas...-belief-A4.pdf

Also, regarding health care workers themselves (HCW's) from The Lancet -
"Findings - 11,584 HCWs were included in the cohort analysis. 23% (2704) reported vaccine hesitancy. Compared to White British HCWs (21.3% hesitant), HCWs from Black Caribbean (54.2%), Mixed White and Black Caribbean (38.1%), Black African (34.4%), Chinese (33.1%), Pakistani (30.4%), and White Other (28.7%) ethnic groups were significantly more likely to be hesitant."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...157-5/fulltext

Last edited by Mark604; Dec 24th 2021 at 12:59 pm.
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Old Dec 24th 2021, 2:03 pm
  #200  
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Darwin theory in action?
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Old Dec 24th 2021, 4:38 pm
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Not if you believe the anti vaxxers. The vax hesitators will survive because the vaccine will have killed the rest of us.
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Old Dec 25th 2021, 11:30 am
  #202  
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Barriej View Post
So how will that work then??? Seeing as Australians already pay via the medicare system. My daughter pays so much each month and then pays for her treatment and is then refunded back a %.

Are they going to do the same with the indigenous population, most of whom are scattered across the vast empty parts of the country?
While you are at it Smokers, Alcoholics, Drug addicts, Drivers who text, don't wear seat belts, idiot climbers or walkers who get stuck up mountains, I could go on....

Also thousands die each year from flu... whats the difference there then???
I've never had a flu jab and never had flu (that I know of) will I have to pay if I catch it and end up in hospital??

I also have private medical insurance here in Spain, so Im not a drain on the health service anyway, If I decide not to have the boosters because I don't think they are helping (or Im fit and healthy and believe that I wont suffer too much if I catch it) what will they do? Im essentially paying for my treatment so it should not be withheld.

Or lets say the Uk decided to roll out something similar. All employed people pay for the health service, you can't make them pay as they are already... so can they then withdraw paying their NI contributions?

I don't want to make this comment but will

Didn't my grandparents fight wars to stop this sort of thing happening???
Freedom and the right to live in peace without persecution (thats probably bit harsh when you consider what happened during the last war, but you get my drift)

No more comments from me, Im getting fed up with the human race (might sign up for the Mars mission)

Happy Christmas anyway...
I totally get your point...

So do the Australian doctors.

However there is a burn out with health workers, because of all the huge challenges they have faced, and with a vaccine available free it has to be frustrating to have to treat the anti-vaxxers who are the majority in the covid wards/ICU.

Also many vital treatments are being delayed ... I think many of our ancestors who fought in the wars would tell people to get real, get off their backsides and get vaxxed, and would be upset to hear that people needing important treatment are not getting it.

Im NOT supporting enforced vaccination, or penalties, but I see both sides of this, and Wondering what others think.

But yes, Happy Christmas to all, I will start the fun in a few mins when family arrive 🌲🎄

Jon
The telescope is launching soon....
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Old Dec 25th 2021, 6:22 pm
  #203  
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Default Re: Covid update

Regarding not treating people who refuse to get vaccinated, there is already priority given to people who follow medical guidance. Try getting a liver transplant if you refuse to give up alcohol for instance. Anyone who wilfully puts the rest of the community at risk by refusing to get vaccinated should be put at the back of the queue for a hospital bed. When there are scarce resources, for example ICU beds, priority should be given for those that have respect for the rest of the community. If you don't have confidence in medical science and refuse to take the vaccine or wear masks when required, don't whinge about it when you go to the back of the queue.
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Old Dec 25th 2021, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Out of interest…. What is the average age of posters on this group?

I am guessing majority retirees?

I will start at 52. Humour me.
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Old Dec 26th 2021, 2:07 am
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Barriej View Post
So how will that work then??? Seeing as Australians already pay via the medicare system. My daughter pays so much each month and then pays for her treatment and is then refunded back a %.

Are they going to do the same with the indigenous population, most of whom are scattered across the vast empty parts of the country?
While you are at it Smokers, Alcoholics, Drug addicts, Drivers who text, don't wear seat belts, idiot climbers or walkers who get stuck up mountains, I could go on....

Also thousands die each year from flu... whats the difference there then???
I've never had a flu jab and never had flu (that I know of) will I have to pay if I catch it and end up in hospital??

I also have private medical insurance here in Spain, so Im not a drain on the health service anyway, If I decide not to have the boosters because I don't think they are helping (or Im fit and healthy and believe that I wont suffer too much if I catch it) what will they do? Im essentially paying for my treatment so it should not be withheld.

Or lets say the Uk decided to roll out something similar. All employed people pay for the health service, you can't make them pay as they are already... so can they then withdraw paying their NI contributions?

I don't want to make this comment but will

Didn't my grandparents fight wars to stop this sort of thing happening???
Freedom and the right to live in peace without persecution (thats probably bit harsh when you consider what happened during the last war, but you get my drift)

No more comments from me, Im getting fed up with the human race (might sign up for the Mars mission)

Happy Christmas anyway...
Added to which, the Aussie Medicare system is a Federal system, so it is run nationally, not by the individual States. So even if NSW want it, they would need a change at Federal level, and I suspect that would be unlikely for many reasons, not least - do you treat other conditions in an unvaxxed person, or just refuse any treatment on the grounds they are positive for COVID?

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Old Dec 27th 2021, 6:11 am
  #206  
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Default Re: Covid update

Australia on Monday confirmed its first death from Omicron variant of coronavirus after a fully-vaccinated patient from New South Wales succumbed to the infection.

The patient was identified in his 80s who had underlying health conditions and reportedly caught the infection at an aged care facility in western Sydney.

This comes on the day Australia’s most populous state reported more than 6,000 new Covid-19 cases.

Infections are surging in Australia amid spread of Omicron variant as New South Wales reported 6,324 new cases, out of which 524 people are in hospitals — including 55 in intensive care units. This is marginally down from Sunday’s count of 6394.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/covid-news...030857817.html
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Old Dec 27th 2021, 8:27 am
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Fredbargate View Post
Australia on Monday confirmed its first death from Omicron variant of coronavirus after a fully-vaccinated patient from New South Wales succumbed to the infection.

The patient was identified in his 80s who had underlying health conditions and reportedly caught the infection at an aged care facility in western Sydney.

This comes on the day Australia’s most populous state reported more than 6,000 new Covid-19 cases.

Infections are surging in Australia amid spread of Omicron variant as New South Wales reported 6,324 new cases, out of which 524 people are in hospitals — including 55 in intensive care units. This is marginally down from Sunday’s count of 6394.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/covid-news...030857817.html
The number of people in both hospital and ICU in NSW are climbing with those high number of cases.

But the high number of cases now being seen in most states are causing other issues - paramedics had to help out at an aged care home here in Adelaide with staff and residents testing positive.

Our vaccination rates are pretty good too - 86.3% of those 12 or over in SA, and some states even higher (https://www.covid19data.com.au/vaccines). Vaccinations now starting for 5+, and boosters available for all who are more than 4 months since second dose.
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Old Dec 27th 2021, 12:15 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
The number of people in both hospital and ICU in NSW are climbing with those high number of cases.

But the high number of cases now being seen in most states are causing other issues - paramedics had to help out at an aged care home here in Adelaide with staff and residents testing positive.

Our vaccination rates are pretty good too - 86.3% of those 12 or over in SA, and some states even higher (https://www.covid19data.com.au/vaccines). Vaccinations now starting for 5+, and boosters available for all who are more than 4 months since second dose.
As in most places there are wide differences. My daughter lives in QLD and has only just had her first jab (she is 29)
Her partners parents have not yet had their second one (they are in their 50's).
Nothing to do with reluctance, but its not been available to them...
Nearest town is over an hours drive and hospital is nearly two...

She and others locally have already said they wont be bothering with the booster, unless its been engineered to cope with the newer strains.

Last edited by Barriej; Dec 27th 2021 at 12:19 pm.
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Old Dec 27th 2021, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by Barriej View Post
As in most places there are wide differences. My daughter lives in QLD and has only just had her first jab (she is 29)
Her partners parents have not yet had their second one (they are in their 50's).
Nothing to do with reluctance, but its not been available to them...
Nearest town is over an hours drive and hospital is nearly two...

She and others locally have already said they wont be bothering with the booster, unless its been engineered to cope with the newer strains.
Yes, I would expect that people closer to major towns / cities can get vaccines easier - but pharmacies and GP's are doing vaccinations to help.

From the link, QLD is at 84.6% of those 12 and over double vaccinated which is similar to SA - but all states were responsible for their own rollout's.
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Old Dec 28th 2021, 3:44 am
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Default Re: Covid update

Originally Posted by airways View Post
Out of interest…. What is the average age of posters on this group?

I am guessing majority retirees?

I will start at 52. Humour me.
It's unlikely this site has that kind of information. A good guess, and I agree it will be majority retirees. My guess is the average age will be a bit nearer to mid sixties.
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