Re: British standards ???
 

Domino I may have missed something in the news.
What countries have been conquered by followers of Islam in the last 500 years.
It was not muslims who killed tens of thousands and operated rape camps in Serbia and Bosnia was it.
The apalling situation in the world today that it is muslims killing each other in Iraq, Egypt, Afgahnistan.Somalia, Syria and across much of north and west africa.
It is the overspill from these conflicts that are the cause of the refugee problem that causes its own problems in western Europe and the US.

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Domino, He has a point though.:lol: Religion has always been used to control the masses. All that crap about the meek inheriting the earth, poor man can pass through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man. Getting your rewards in heaven etc. The we have the Jihadists being promised loads of virgins...where did that one come from:blink: Do they never thing how improbable it is.

I had a thought when part of the funeral of the Welsh girl, April Jones was on TV. One women priest said "God is watching over you"...where was he when she was being brutally raped and mudered:thumbdown:

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In old Norse religions they were promised valhalla where warriors had their every desire attended to. One religion takes what it sees as the good bits from another , hence the virgins for Jihadists.
Stoning women and those taken in adutery, chopping the hands off thieves etc was taken from the Jewish religion which has more in common with Islam than you would think.
But you cannot blame religion for everything, The nazis hated the church almost as much as they did anyone else who was not an arian german.

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except Hitler wasn't an Arian, and he wasn't a German

I believe no one has actually answered the question - "who pays the ferryman?" who carries the dead warriors across the Styxx.

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Charon the boatman ?

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You talk a load rubbish, te nazi atrocities were years ago, so leave the past in the past, and yo shold be condeming what is happening in the UK right now.

All yor banging on about what the catholics or vikings believed in the year dot is irrelevant.

Mentally handicapped people used to be put in the stocks and pelted with rotten fruit, but we have moved on, we burnt witches but we hve moved on.

I would like to hear you and AN(other) condem the "forced marriage in the UK" issue, without the smoke screen of what others religions did in the past.

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Me Me . late to the party as usual, posts have moved on since your last very erudite comment " next ".
Forced marriage is just one of the many evils carried out in the UK by all parts of society, just ask the parents of little April.

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Late to th party as usual, very funny:thumbdown:

Some of us have a life away from BE, so are you saying that if we are out and away from the computer, then when we get around to reading the posts, we have no right to make a comment?

If that is the way, maybe you can show me where it states that in the rules of posting.

Just to clear matters up, especially for the posters that are not all day screen watching. I have made 56 more posts than you but have been a member for 4 and a half years longer, so instead of you criticizing me for late postings, maybe I should make a comment such as "GET A LIFE"



So you are still not condeming the forced marriages, and I think you have got a flamin cheek even mentioning the parents of April Jones in the same breath as the muslim parents who marry off their underage daughters against their will, and in many cases kill them to protect the "honour of the family.

April´s parents have lost a beloved child they are victims of a terrible crime, and to compare them to the scum that would rather see their daughters dead, so as not to lose face is disgusting.(in fact a new LOW on BE)

Re: British standards ???
 

Which part of forced marriages are evil do you NOT understand.
You seem to believe that the evils in the UK can be attributed more to one group in society than society itself.
Which is worse a girl who is forced into an unhappy marriage in a strange land or the deaths of children .
We have got to get our priorities right in the UK instead of just looking for someone to blame all the time.

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He doesn't have a defence so he is muddying the waters

NEXT (I'll say it for you:thumbup:)

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It must be nice to have such a simple view if life.
Questions for your both JT and MM.
Statement of agreement,
Forced marriages are wrong in a developed society.
So you make them illegal.
How do you then stop parents with traditional views from sending their daughters to countries where the act is not illegal.
Do you make it illegal for anyone from the Indian sub continent under the age of 16 to leave the UK. ( you cannot because of human rights legislation ).

You keep condemming but you have no suggestions on how to solve the problem .
I suppose your solution is to send all immigrants back to their home countries so that the Uk no longer has the problem even though the problem and abuse still exists.
I do not rank child abuse according to race and circumstances, all are appalling and in what we call a civilsed country we should be doing everything we can to prevent it.

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So forced marriage is bad but forced adoptions is bad... because one is muslim and the other is christian I assume?

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now I am confused.:confused:

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I believe it should have read , forced adoptions are not bad,
You are easily confused.

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But the past informs the future or we will never learn.

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I fear that you and others are finding new "witches" to burn.

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What are you talking about?

If the was no problem with this, then there would not have been a TV programme about it then would there?

the producers would not have done a sting to catch out the mosques that perform these ceremonies.

Maybe you and others do not care so much because the main sufferers are female.

Some are more concerned about a handful of "innocent" men who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (yeh) and are in Gantanamo, than thousands of young girls. YKWYA

Sexism is fine though isn´t it?

And if it is a wicth hunt, that is was is needed, and just so you have some insight into the problem, I am sending the link to Karma Nirvana.

http://www.karmanirvana.org.uk/

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I actually think the best comment has been posted so far on this subject and anything I, or anyone else adds is just worthless.

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:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Agreed, I was the one who posted it.

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You believe whatever you want to believe love.... whatever gets you through the day.

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Despite the endless flow of diversionary tactics by the usual suspects who would obviously prefer to bury their heads in the sand or even discuss the price of cheese rather than face up to the issues in question, me me clearly won the day, IMHO of course. :cool:

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Oh dear god Dick, how old are you? Seriously man, how old are you?

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Matt - OK so perhaps you have made a mistake, but you have made a good one because you are perfectly right in that forced marriages and forced adoptions are equally bad, irrespective of who enforces it.

However the latter can quite easily happen as State Imposed "for the good of the child" even though the child(ren) have expressed a contrary view.
And there are also the opposite ends of that spectrum where children are left with abusive parents "for the good of the child" where perhaps a forced adoption would have meant one less child death.

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Fat fingers and the iPhone keypad isn't always a good combination but my point was clear and concise. The adoptions only really stopped in the very late 80's so they are quite obviously still relevant. These children were stolen from their parents by the Catholic church to supply those who could afford it and those who THEY deemed to deserve it with children. However you look at it, it's the same degree of evil as forced marriage but because they are not Muslims it's obviously not relevant to the Muslimaphobes.

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Forced adoptions are not relevant to a discussion about Muslim traditions and violence. You are just trying to change the agenda. It is not a phobia when a large percentage of the world is suffering from Muslim terrorisim:sneaky:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Almost nothing in this post makes sense Jacky. Two wrongs?

Of course it is relevant, we are talking about heinous acts by religious fervor and fanaticism, that is relevant to any religion that allows it's faith to be taken over by that, Christianity included and yet it's only Islam that is focused on. As I have said time and time again, there are more than a billion Muslims on this planet and yet it's the actions of a thousand or so fanatics who, if they didn't have religion would fine another cause to kill for.... much of which comes down to education and perception.

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Indeed, and hopefully we learn from it and move on, we don't stay in a time warp in the past like some religions where stoning to death is still thought to be OK, where honour killings are the norm, and many other barbaric medieval practices.

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You mean medieval practices like beheading Infidels:)

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JT I no I have suggested many times before that you get your facts right but please.
Arranged marriages ( we term some of them as forced ) are a tradition in much of society Christian , Muslim etc etc.
In the UK what you suggesting are ALL forced marriages ( yes some are ) is a tradition in both the Indian, ( Sikh and Hindu ) and Pakistani ( muslim ) communities.
If you keep isnsiting on attaching labels get it right.
Not everyone from the east with abrown skin who lives in the UK is a Muslim.

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I don't think I have mentioned anything about arranged marriages:confused: I probably know much more about different cultures than you do. worked with ethnic groups a couple of days a week up in Dewsbury, Batley etc. My Secretary was Indian, she was a big advocate of arranged marriages as her point was that we make enough mess of it when we choose ourselves:lol: Probably because she had a happy marriage and a handsome Husband. Didn't work very well for Anna Dewani though, marrying her off to a closet gay who probably killed her!

Whilst I was working there a Muslim gang was exposed for seeking out girls who had run away from arranged marriages and bringing them back to face the consequences. I think some did get charged but it was a bit hushed up. A friend of mine in Dewsbury and outspoken on Asian womens rights was threatened by one of the local Muslim leaders that if she didn't shut up she would have her legs broken. A bit mild I suppose when you look at honour killings etc.

The inverted racists in Government have helped to perpetuate these abuses by turning a blind eye, they knew what was going on 25 years ago. No-one wanted to stand up and be counted for fear of being branded a racist. Infact in most Labour Councils they would have lost their jobs.

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or posh people who speak the Queen's French ??
;)

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and was he reported for it ?
was he charged ?
was he prosecuted and found guilty ?

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What do you think, never reported. He was one of the "respected" bearded ones who led the Asian Community.

We used to press the men for equality for women. I was doing a seminar on obtaining EU funding. I insisted that the women should be present as many of the grants they were looking at was for industrial sewing machines so they could work from home. What happened....1 minute before the start the women were ushered in like herding sheep and sat in one corner in a huddle!

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Fred, can we have this and the UKIP thread merged please.

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Rugby, informing JT and MM that there are over a billion muslims in the world even if anyone with more than 1 working brain cell knows that 99.999% just get on with their lives will only scare the poor dears even more than they obviously are.
JT I was born in Southall middx. a town that is predominately populated by immigrants ( some now 3rd generation ) from the Indian sub continent.
The community ( all races and colours ) saw off attempts by the BNP to cause friction between different ethnic groups.
It was British common sense and fair play that prevailed then and will win out again.
If you want to discuss standards that really matter then we should be discussing the " national fall " in levels of education across the UK in almost every part of our society.

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Trying to divert the topic again:rofl:

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Why... this thread was started to point out the lack of equality in a UK private school. Losing the debate eh:p

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No just fed up with your illinformed rascist rubbish.
I asked both you and MM what your suggested actions would be that could realsitically help to reduce the problem of forced marriages.
As expected no response just your usual rants.
If you are not part of the solution ( or in your case have no ideas ) then you are part of the problem.
You bias and ignorance is just as dangerous to the UK way of as those of the muslim extremists.

Re: British standards ???
 

Hmmmm.......

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The programme about forced marriages, was to show that the 99.99% of the muslim poplation in the UK, is doing exacly that, ie getting on with activities that are against the law, not all obviously, but for the parents who want to marry their underage daughters against their will, there are "respected muslim leaders" that will do it.

Just getting on with their muslim lives as you put it, is the problem, and against the British law to boot. Marrying off 14 year olds in AGAINST THE LAW.

I will give an answer to your request of what I would do to solve the problem of the poor girls in question.

I object to you saying that if I have no ideas how get a solution, then I am part of the problem. Who o you think you are to make a comment like that?

I would lock up the 18 religious men who offered to perform the marriage for at least 10 years.

I would go through all records of Sharia law marriages that have been already performed and if found that any were forced or girls were underage, I would thow the person who performed the marriage in jail also.

I would ban face coverings in public, because an abuser has carte blanche to beat the living daylights out of the women in his life, which can go unnoticed if only the eyes are visable through a slit.

It is a lot harder to hide the evidence of a thrashing, if you have to make do with just make up and a pair of dark sunglasses.

That way the other women at the school gates or workplace will be able to identify abused women.


Also what I am surprised about is the lack of posts on this thread by the female members of BE, how anyone of the same sex cannot be moved by their plight is beyond me.

They are British girls, having their lives ruined by their own parents and religious leaders, and yet very few of you are posting or condeming the practice in your posts.

I can only presume that you don´t have daughters of your own, so have no idea of the misery that inflicting a forced marriage on a British born girl can have.

Here is the link for Karma nirvana for the members of BE to read.

www.karmanirvana.org.uk

I see some posters agree that it is savage what is happening to these girls, but as far as I know only 1 is female, good posts J2,:thumbsup: is seems the rest don´t give a hoot about it, or are afraid to be called racist, but where is your empathy for fellow women and girls?

it seems that sexism is OK.:thumbdown::thumbdown:



Just a quick update on the female posters on this thread.

Sorry to Amideislas: you have posted and given your views.

Rosemary posted a rather bland GOOD POST which was in response to another poster who more or less asked us to stop arguing, so does not count as support for fellow females.

LynnR posted in reference to a post by me, to tell me to move to a place where the tax regime is more beneficial to us, again does not really count as solidarity, no trace of "Sisters are doing it for themselves" either.

Apart from that the contributors have been male, that says a lot to me.