Bingo. You see, all these ideas fall down unless you accept that there is a subclass that can be brutalised at will because they have no rights.

I have no objection to people paying PROPERLY for their crimes. Trouble is, it should have been done long ago. Under 10 years old, your parents have to pay, in full, plus compensation for anything you break/deface/steal. 10/11 you have to pay back 25% by doing unpleasant community work, and your parents the rest.

12&13, 50;50, and then 14&15 you are responsible for 3/4 of the bill. After 15 tho, it's down to you, 100% and one way or another we will take it out on your hide.

Fail to co-operate, and if necessary, it's the chain gangs and locked up every hour you are not working.

Again, you have to accept that the rest of us will have to pick up the tab for the rest of their lives.

Might be worth it tho.

Not a bad idea about working for benefits, the ones that have never had a job are a good place to start and could do 1 week in every 4 working, that way it would give more poeple a taste of the work ethic, as there could be others doing the "off weeks" too.

Also this would cut down on working on the side,because no employer would allow them every 4th week off, and they may just have to ligitimusly employ people instead of relying on benefit claimants.

It might be worth trying, as there does not seem to be any other ways to show people that a free ride is not for life.

OK, so we give a cutoff point if it's not for life. Now you have a lot of people with no money and no hope of a job.

Then what?

It's very easy to come up with a solution, but the consequences of solutions are all too often not thought of.

Case of the cure being worse than the disease.....?

I much disagree with many posts here ;
the society is Very Sick , in the U.K. and elsewheres ;
what exxxxactly should the point be of going to work ( if one could get any ? ) , getting exploited and cheated by scroupleless greedy capitalist pigs who have no conscience , nor ethics nor morals , but are only focused on their profits ? ( U.K. is the prime example of this ! )
And if you were to get such "work" and some pittance under-survival wages , then next you can get robbed by the taxman , then by the likes of Tesco , BP and your municipality ?
The ones who comprehend : leave ( if they can ) .

I suppose it's down to interpretation of terms. Me, I have no objection to working, and they old fair day's pay for a fair day's work. However, that all too often means working long hours for a pittance, while those at the top sit around doing b all and are paid a fortune.

I don't think that the gap between top and bottom should be so big.

I remember being at a meeting where we were discussing some gov't initiative over qualifications, NVQs et al. I got chatting with the guy next to me who ran a firm, about 40-50 people making pianos, I think.

He said that when he took on a manager/director/whatever, that person had to do one week's work at each work station, all the way from the bottom to the top. (whether the guy got the appropriate level of pay I don't know.)

He said that having done that, the manager would be far less likely to make stupid decisions based on cost alone.

Well, that is what happens in Spain, no jobs,and no dole, but according to most posters on here, they are of the opinion that there is more discipline and respect shown by the Spanish youth than their British counterparts.


Could itbe that they know there is no free ride and sooner or later they have to get their act together, I dont know.

So I will leave it to an "incomer" to tell me why that is.

Like they would know? I think that at the end of the day, I think that the average person would not wish to find themselves dealing with a pissed off civi, as you might get your head broken - y basta.

Oddly, if you want a kinder, gentler society, I think you need a very strong police force (that can be trusted) that will vigorously deal with anything that threatens it.

There is a certain truth to the comments that the UK police have been emasculated, but can't that be laid at the door of those police who can't be trusted with such power?

Food for thought Many UK youths are content with a bit of benefit, a bit of help from Mum & Dad and some hustling. I don't know why kids expect to leave school without any qualifications and get a decent job. Some of them are barely literate...would you employ them in your business!

My Parents co. used to employ apprentices and even many years ago they were the ones who thought the world owed them a living. I shall always remember one (a lovely charming lad to talk to). Many times he didn't turn up until lunch with flimsy excuses. Other times he would take 3 or so days of sick. Finally he was warned and told he must produce a sick note. He did, written on the Doctors certificate was "He says he is tired and so bloody well am I" despite this he still brought it to the office

That's pretty damn funny. I created a business and ran it for 30 years before passing it onto my son. In that time we had about 16 people work with us, of whom three were 100% honest and could be trusted to do a good day's work. The others ranged from straight thieves, to lazy don't cares. We sacked one because he basically was stoned every monday morning and would throw a sickie.

The people we intervieved for the work were mostly..... indescribably bad, and from their interviews, completely unemployable.

We could try the Canadian north.....it's part of the commonwealth and no guards would be needed, there is nothing to loot and there is the option of escape....but they should watch out for the polar bears!

its when they turn up well dressed, clean shaven, well spoken and clean and tidy, express an interest in the job and ask relevent questions.
You give them the job
They turn up on the monday morning, late, unshaven, stinking of 3 weeks curry and start putting feet on the desk

because of this happening with temps that had been vetted by our agency we had to interview temps coming in for 2 weeks holiday cover..

I tell you without exaggeration, that there were times when I felt that I needed to check their pulse. In fact, the ones that came from the jobcentre were the worst. It got so bad that when they phoned for an interview and said they were from the JC I would say, 'Are you really interested or are you doing it because they tell you to. If the latter, I will be happy to tell them that that you gave great interview, sadly tho... and then neither of us need to waste our time. OK?'

Most of them were delighted with that agreement, and we used it to cut down on the number of losers we had to interview.

No, you put them on a months trial.

The ones with the best CV's tend to be the worst performers.

I once had one with an impeccable reference so I rang his previous employers and suggested they re-employ him.