I posted this on another related thread but it has some relevence

The following was taken from The Times letters to editor 21-10-11

Pension Poverty
Sir, I am saddened but not surprised to see MPs calling for the method of calculating state pension increases to be amended (by which I mean, of course, lowered). It seems to have been forgotten that pensioners already stand to lose 0.4 percent of their annual increase because of the change from RPI to CPI.
A single pensioner's minimum guaranteed weekly income is £137.35 but the official poverty level is £178 a week, and 83 percent of pensioner households receive the majority of their income from state pensions or benefits. After reduction in winter fuel payments and the increases in fuel prices many pensioners are contemplating the stark choice between food and heat.
David Smith
Chair, National Pensions Convention
Devon

Yes it is definitely lower than the Spanish Pension. I enquired about it having worked in Spain but sadly not long enough to qualify!! There is NO pension in India, or any other benefit come to that. Its a completely different world.

Whose Spanish pension are you talking about?

Because according to this article 65% of Spanish pensioners get LESS than 735 euros a month pension, some as little as the 450 a month mark.735 euros a month happens to be the poverty line in Spain

http://www.adn.es/economia/20090930/...pensiones.html

Do you actually know many Spanish pensioners to reach your conclusion of is it just another case of "chinese whispers".

Because for all of you bemoaning the plight of British pensioners I can show you 10 cases for everyone amongst the locals.

she may well be a British citizen..

Obviously I cannot quote figures for every Spanish Pensioner but all the ones I know who are prepared to discuss money matters get more than 120 pounds a week and some have been getting a benefit that everyone gets over the age of 55 in certain circumstances.
I think it's a case of 65% of people not believing in statistics!

You do realise that the 120 a week has tocover everything dont you?

In the UKpeople get more on housing benefit and get the pension on top, still think it is generous?

And the payment for the over 50s is about 400 odd amonth if you no other income

I was refering to people I know or relatives of people I know. Stats are false as they give average figures. Most spaniards haven't managed to obtain the full record as they have been in temporary short term jobs with periods of unemployment. Not long ago there was a spanish TV programme. One pensioner received 485 euro pm and was keeping her unemployed family on that! Similar eg. is average wage...in the UK it is £26,000 (I think) but we all know there are thousand that don't earn anything close to that.

The following link gives all the pension rates and also minimum income regulations:

http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/...2007/index.htm

This info is in english.

I agree and I do not think that it is generous but I do not think the State has to be generous. It's up to all of us to prepare for our old age as they have to in many parts of the world where there are no State Benefits. I do think that having made contributions to the system for the necessary qualifying years the returns should be higher than 120 pounds a week.

only if living in rented accommodation, but then many have been living on that for generations. If you go into hospital for more than a few days then it will be stopped as well.

if you have put your spare cash into buying your home then you won't get anything except instructions to sell the house to pay for your care if you have to go into a home.

methinks its best to be unemployed and living in rented on retiring, you will get it all

whats this about over 50's ????

What you are actually saying is that a mature adult would be much better off limiting themselves to living in rented accommodation, not making provisions for themselves for later in life, after never having strived in any way to better their families or own personal circumstances in anyway, just so that they can claim top ups like housing benefit.

Could that be the reason the welfare bill is so big in the uk?

Because people have deliberatly been "under acheiving" and restricting their potential throughout a large nunber of years, so that they can milk all they can when reaching pension age?


It would be a bit ironic after all that "sacrifice" if they only get to reap said benefits for a very short time, and then kick the bucket.

People not wishing to better their own or family living conditions, by not wanting to buy a property on the off chance that it might have to be sold to pay for care when older.


Another irony would be if they just died sudden and did not need care. An unneccessary limited life for a null and void result.

Some people due to circumstances have not been able to provide for themselves, ie low pay ,ilness, family problems etc. that is why these benefits need to exist, they have an intended beneficiary. They should be looked after by the state.


The real tragedy is when apparently sane, healthy people deliberately choose that way of living so they can "legitimately" claim the extra cash.


Effectively people "sell their soul" to the welfare system, throwing off in the process, self esteem, and pride in supporting their own family, to wriggle out of possibly having to pay for care in old age and/or for maybe a hundred quid a week housing benefit, for an unknown length of time.

Really something to strive for.........

Yes, and you know what I am saying is the truth.

why buy your council house at a stupidly high discount when you will have to repair or replace things ??
(some leave it until it has been fully refitted, new ch, boiler, dg etc knowing it will outlast them).

where is the incentive to save and prosper when later on in life it will all be syphoned off by greedy councils?
why not just live in council or HA place and get things done all over the place. Round here HA go EU grant and replaced the gutters on all their properties, and the roof on all blocks of flats. all ch being upgraded to new condensing boilers.
Even those of modest means and salary can find not going down the pub, social club etc etc, but saving to get your own place will bite you on the bum.

Benefits for all providing you haven't done anything to help yourself and have savings, if you do then the benefits will be discounted until you are brought down to the "common level".
Yes that is the legacy of Britains Welfare State.

the only guarantee you have is you will leave this world with the same amount of money as you came into it.

I understand your argument of,let others do it for you and let them finance it.

For far too many it makes perfect sense, but the jackpot of a free condenser in a council flat is not enough for me to put my life on hold for the first 65 years.

I have many years to go before becoming a pensioner, and I cant think of anything worse for my wellbeing as sitting around for the next 20 odd years, limiting my earning power and personal potential, for such little reward.

Very true and one way of looking at it, but I prefer to concentrate on the intervening years and the quality.

as you are making out you are young, bright, successful why should you put your life on hold - the world is your oyster.
and there are others out there more practiced at it than you.

just remember that when you get to 64 you should have salted all your belongings away, got yourself a rented flat and make yourself redundant then you can start claiming all your benefits. As it is paid in to bank account when you reach the right point you can start taking 6m holidays in Spain, Goa, Ruba or wherever you want.