So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
Mar 8th 2017 | 6:01 pm
#121
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
What has?
Mar 8th 2017 | 6:05 pm
#122
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,887
From: Disneyland, Dubai
Mar 9th 2017 | 6:26 am
#126
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 300
From: Abu Dhabi
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
lets swap articles...
https://www.ft.com/content/f6cda050-...a-398b2169cf79
UK is very important to Germany. I raise your 11.6%
https://www.ft.com/content/f6cda050-...a-398b2169cf79
UK is very important to Germany. I raise your 11.6%
Well now, very little raises a red flag quicker than when somebody with a clear ideological position makes an unreferenced claim about data and then follows it with a statement like: "That is a fact"
So I did a little research and, quelle surprise, one simple Google search is enough to demonstrate that it's bullshit! Imagine: a Brexiteer making an unsubstantiated claim supported by completely made-up numbers!! Who would have thought???!!!
Here is a very interesting article with analysis on the subject which thoughtfully treats the trade issue without any of the hysterical ranting that seems to subsume most coverage of this topic. In case you were wondering, or can't be arsed to click the link, the actual proportion of German auto exports accounted for by the UK is 11.6%: substantial, but nothing like 20%.
More pertinently the article puts that in the wider context of German strategic interests and how that completely undermines this silly idea that everything will come good because the Germans are scared they won't be able to sell us quite as many cars. Aside from anything else, that betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about how public policy is developed and established in Germany.
The other thing about this, which for me is the most significant and scary, is that that clearly spurious position appears to constitute the entire UK negotiation approach. No strategy, no genuine attempt to constructively engage, just idiotic rhetoric. All that bluster from Boris and David Davis and the blessed Theresa is only going to backfire. They don't appear to have a clue how to handle this properly and smartly to secure the best interests of the UK. It's all about childish political posturing to tame the beast of unapologetic nationalism unleashed by this stupid referendum.
The empire has no clothes in this one - they will be eviscerated. Sure the EU will be worse off also but proportionately far less so than the UK and it will be a price worth paying for them.
PS Barca, bloody hell eh?
So I did a little research and, quelle surprise, one simple Google search is enough to demonstrate that it's bullshit! Imagine: a Brexiteer making an unsubstantiated claim supported by completely made-up numbers!! Who would have thought???!!!
Here is a very interesting article with analysis on the subject which thoughtfully treats the trade issue without any of the hysterical ranting that seems to subsume most coverage of this topic. In case you were wondering, or can't be arsed to click the link, the actual proportion of German auto exports accounted for by the UK is 11.6%: substantial, but nothing like 20%.
More pertinently the article puts that in the wider context of German strategic interests and how that completely undermines this silly idea that everything will come good because the Germans are scared they won't be able to sell us quite as many cars. Aside from anything else, that betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about how public policy is developed and established in Germany.
The other thing about this, which for me is the most significant and scary, is that that clearly spurious position appears to constitute the entire UK negotiation approach. No strategy, no genuine attempt to constructively engage, just idiotic rhetoric. All that bluster from Boris and David Davis and the blessed Theresa is only going to backfire. They don't appear to have a clue how to handle this properly and smartly to secure the best interests of the UK. It's all about childish political posturing to tame the beast of unapologetic nationalism unleashed by this stupid referendum.
The empire has no clothes in this one - they will be eviscerated. Sure the EU will be worse off also but proportionately far less so than the UK and it will be a price worth paying for them.
PS Barca, bloody hell eh?
Mar 11th 2017 | 6:18 pm
#127
...we killed the flame
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,086
From: Dubai
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
lets swap articles...
https://www.ft.com/content/f6cda050-...a-398b2169cf79
UK is very important to Germany. I raise your 11.6%
https://www.ft.com/content/f6cda050-...a-398b2169cf79
UK is very important to Germany. I raise your 11.6%
Regardless of whether the share of German auto exports to the UK is 5% or 50% (and I recognise that there is a lot of latitude in how and when that "number" is established to support a variety of points), the critical fact remains that shrieking loudly that "they need us more than we need them" is not a viable negotiation strategy! It may play to the political base at home but it is making the establishment of a sensible agreement more and more difficult to achieve. Both parties will be hurt if the UK leaves the free market but the UK will be by far the bigger loser and the economic price may be worth it to the EU for the political price of holding the union fast by not "rewarding" Brexit. In the UK, while the current Brexit bravado suggests that people there feel the same about the price to be paid by the UK, I think that opinion will go through a significant and painful shift as reality bites.
I was in China the morning the Brexit result came through and the unanimous opinion expressed by the numerous Chinese business people I met on that day was: "what were they thinking?" To a woman and man they were completely incredulous that Britain would choose to cut itself apart from the EU and in many cases, refused to believe that was actually the final result. That disconnection from reality has unfortunately sustained into this silly posturing on the exit terms.
Mar 11th 2017 | 7:23 pm
#128
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,478
From: Abu Dhabi via Barcelona
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
M.A.T.
What have the chinks ever done for us?
What have the chinks ever done for us?
Mar 11th 2017 | 8:22 pm
#129
...we killed the flame
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,086
From: Dubai
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
Mar 12th 2017 | 5:29 pm
#130
Thread Starter
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,520
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
I think if someone is holding up China, a brutal communist dictatorship / oligarchy with poor human rights record and terrible environmental abuse and a long history of imposing horrendous economic, political and social programmes on its own people as a country to be listened to over the democratic traditions and heritage of Great Britain, then I just don't know what to say.
That aside, will Article 50 be invoked this week? Bill goes back to HoC today. Will they remove the amendments from the HoL? Rumours of a Tory rebellion over the weekend seems to be dying as fast as the Telegraph's increasingly clickbait headlines turn into compost, but we'll see. If the amendments are stripped, what will HoL do?
Will peers rebel? Will May accept the amendments or delay the bill to create a few hundred new peers? Someone I read elsewhere pointed out it'd be a lot easier for her to just restore the voting rights of the hereditary peers and boom, problem sorted.
Or will the HoL concede defeat, Royal Assent obtained and Article 50 invoked on ..... Wednesday?
Or will the Dutch elections be factored in and Article 50 delayed a bit longer?
Or will Nicola Sturgeon's antics about a second referendum cause any problems?
Big week we have, folks. A right proper roller coaster of a week
rubs hands gleefully the old nerdy political wonk in me won't be able to sleep at all.
That aside, will Article 50 be invoked this week? Bill goes back to HoC today. Will they remove the amendments from the HoL? Rumours of a Tory rebellion over the weekend seems to be dying as fast as the Telegraph's increasingly clickbait headlines turn into compost, but we'll see. If the amendments are stripped, what will HoL do?
Will peers rebel? Will May accept the amendments or delay the bill to create a few hundred new peers? Someone I read elsewhere pointed out it'd be a lot easier for her to just restore the voting rights of the hereditary peers and boom, problem sorted.
Or will the HoL concede defeat, Royal Assent obtained and Article 50 invoked on ..... Wednesday?
Or will the Dutch elections be factored in and Article 50 delayed a bit longer?
Or will Nicola Sturgeon's antics about a second referendum cause any problems?
Big week we have, folks. A right proper roller coaster of a week
rubs hands gleefully the old nerdy political wonk in me won't be able to sleep at all.
Mar 12th 2017 | 6:39 pm
#131
...we killed the flame
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,086
From: Dubai
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
I think if someone is holding up China, a brutal communist dictatorship / oligarchy with poor human rights record and terrible environmental abuse and a long history of imposing horrendous economic, political and social programmes on its own people as a country to be listened to over the democratic traditions and heritage of Great Britain, then I just don't know what to say.
And this week? I expect a big damp squib.
Mar 12th 2017 | 7:30 pm
#132
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,478
From: Abu Dhabi via Barcelona
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
Where did anybody say that? I do think the views of business people in one of the UK's largest trading partners (presumably with an ambition to be larger in the magical post-Brexit "liberation") offer a useful and dispassionate perspective.
And this week? I expect a big damp squib.
And this week? I expect a big damp squib.
Mar 12th 2017 | 7:30 pm
#133
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 315
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
We should trigger Article 50, announce we are leaving the EU by end of this month, and be done with it.
We can deal with the rest later.
Yes, it would mean we have to leave the common market, but that is probably inevitable in any case given that Europe wants to make leaving appear painful to deter others. So we trade under WTO rules, and get to cut trade tariffs with the rest of the world.
The "leaving fine" can be negotiated separately. Again there we're in the position of strength so we can agree something fair, such as paying the ongoing pension obligations of UK staff and commissioners - but refusing to pay for spending commitments that have not yet been made.
I'm hopeful that this can be the start of a great new period in the UK's history. People will look back in future and thank the British electorate for their foresight in preventing the slow creep of corruption, protectionism and erosion of democracy by the Brussels "elite".
We can deal with the rest later.
Yes, it would mean we have to leave the common market, but that is probably inevitable in any case given that Europe wants to make leaving appear painful to deter others. So we trade under WTO rules, and get to cut trade tariffs with the rest of the world.
The "leaving fine" can be negotiated separately. Again there we're in the position of strength so we can agree something fair, such as paying the ongoing pension obligations of UK staff and commissioners - but refusing to pay for spending commitments that have not yet been made.
I'm hopeful that this can be the start of a great new period in the UK's history. People will look back in future and thank the British electorate for their foresight in preventing the slow creep of corruption, protectionism and erosion of democracy by the Brussels "elite".
Mar 12th 2017 | 8:43 pm
#134
...we killed the flame
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,086
From: Dubai
Re: So we're leaving the EU including the Single Market
We should trigger Article 50, announce we are leaving the EU by end of this month, and be done with it.
We can deal with the rest later.
Yes, it would mean we have to leave the common market, but that is probably inevitable in any case given that Europe wants to make leaving appear painful to deter others. So we trade under WTO rules, and get to cut trade tariffs with the rest of the world.
The "leaving fine" can be negotiated separately. Again there we're in the position of strength so we can agree something fair, such as paying the ongoing pension obligations of UK staff and commissioners - but refusing to pay for spending commitments that have not yet been made.
I'm hopeful that this can be the start of a great new period in the UK's history. People will look back in future and thank the British electorate for their foresight in preventing the slow creep of corruption, protectionism and erosion of democracy by the Brussels "elite".
We can deal with the rest later.
Yes, it would mean we have to leave the common market, but that is probably inevitable in any case given that Europe wants to make leaving appear painful to deter others. So we trade under WTO rules, and get to cut trade tariffs with the rest of the world.
The "leaving fine" can be negotiated separately. Again there we're in the position of strength so we can agree something fair, such as paying the ongoing pension obligations of UK staff and commissioners - but refusing to pay for spending commitments that have not yet been made.
I'm hopeful that this can be the start of a great new period in the UK's history. People will look back in future and thank the British electorate for their foresight in preventing the slow creep of corruption, protectionism and erosion of democracy by the Brussels "elite".
