Yeah. How can Cameron and Obama support a "democratic" ally that seeks to muffle voices of dissent. Reminds me of a clash song....

"You have the riggggggghhhhhhhtt to frrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeee speech...

So long as you're not dumb enough to ACTUALLY TRY IT".....

Maybe I'm getting senile, but I'm starting to think that the basic honesty of Joe Strummer is far cleverer than all of the sophisticated arguments of the Chomsky's, Greer's et al that I've devoted so much mental energy to.....

Dubai Authorities caught Hussein Salem (#Mubarak's kinsman) with $1.5 B in cash upon arrival to DXB. #Egypt #Tahrir

this was reported a few days ago... sums were smaller though. I guess this is Egyptian whispers.

Mubarak Family May Have as Much as $70 Billion Stashed Away, Experts Estimate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...family-fortune

I heard this but am not 100% sure if I believe it as this would be more than Bill Gates... Bill's is in stock options etc and subject to market volitivity, whereas Mubarak's would be in cash and artefacts.

Still Egypt's GDP is about 180bn, so he would have only been taking 1% per annum for 30 years so I guess it could be possible.

So under Mubarak, GDP hasn't grown at all in 30 years?

The prosecution rests, M'Lud.............

Well I did think that, but also assumed that he would have had some return on his investments probably equal to GDP growth...

but you are right... his take is anywhere between 1-5% of GDP. I guess that is possible although I'd be surprised if it was really that high.

definitely feasible, you want to own a steel company, **** you pay me 10%, you want to own a hotel **** you pay me 15%, you want to sell gas to israel, **** you pay me 20%.

there are a lot of rumours about the true wealth of middle eastern leaders, lets just say forbes rich list would get a shock.

gates, buffet et al make largely legal sums of money, pay taxes and declare earnings, totalitarian leaders have no such obligations and half of them control access to the worlds most popular consumable.

I guess its now over

Next is Aden & San'aa via Damascus

Personally I would love to see the peaceful revolution spread to the Magic Kingdom, but unfortunately your average Saudi is too docile to know how to start one.

with little help from the firm, anything can be done..under the sun

Cant believe I have missed this thread so now I have found it, I shall add my view

The last 30 years Egypt was fully controlled by America and American military aid is what made that happen, that did not help it much - they fully supported a dictator and it made 80mn people suffer very badly and turned a blind eye as long as it it stayed "yes sir no sir".

In my opinion the easiest parallel to make with the Brotherhood which everyone seems to be scared of is the way Turkey is currently run - it has a Muslim government - don't see anyone who has an issue with that. They got their EU membership during the same presidency - the news on the Brotherhood is what gives the impression they will do what ever people are scared of, the fact on the ground is very different. They got a very bad name for being very anti government which his understandable, it the rest of the country 30 years to wake up to what had been happening all along but the fact remains they were seen as nutters due to the fact they wanted Mubarak out a long long time ago.

They do have lots of support by Egyptians and at the end of the day that is what counts not what external powers want as that will ensure the country stays where it is now.

Most importantly - their chief was on TV last week saying they have no intention of running the country but they would like to be in part of any government that is formed, which makes lots of sense as in a true democracy the voice of the population should be heard and when the population is made up majority Muslims (Secular Muslins as in Turkey) not having them in the government will in no way represent the people.

The way Mubarak stole the money from the state is baffling especially as throughout his whole term(s) he was given 100% support from western states such as the U.S that gave him military aid second only to Israel which amounts to more then the food aid they give to the whole of Africa. reports coming out that he has wealth of 40 to 70bn USD is shocking news for us outsiders, but I spoke to a few Egyptian friends and they did not blink an eye lid - they have all said that every new project, every business to open every money making activity had some input from his family or one of his cronies - as Millhouse says over 30 years it is very possible, and base don 40bn that is only 2.5k an hour which is very possible.

Obviously this is my personal view and i am sure everyone has a view on what is going to happen next - so lets see and lets hope that Egypt returns to the people and does not continue to be a puppet state.

I expect i have repeated stuff on this, put it down to excitement and happiness for Egyptians to get rid of this tyrant in their drive for normality

Z

My Mistake here - they became associate members which give them lots of rights such as economic, trade - views are they could become full members on the next round in 2013

Z

ha i am following you from thread to thread. there is literally no chance of turkey membership before 2021.
I hate to quote wikipedia but in this case the article is good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessi...European_Union

Hey W C it is debatable to be honest - depends where you read, some say 2013 some say later no one really knows to be honest until it is done - look at some of the Eastern countries that have been let in recently with terrible economic policy as well as poorish rights over the years.