Originally Posted by mikewot (Post 10989535)

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith."
Winston Churchill, The River War.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 10989546)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j04osq6QWX8

I like it when god is Hitchslapped.

N.

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 10989612)

Crikey, that's some foresight that old Winston had. Have not come across that quotation before.

Originally Posted by mikewot (Post 10989535)

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith."
Winston Churchill, The River War.

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy (Post 10989653)

It's a fascinating read, available as an e-book on Amazon. Some of the quotable parts are extremely apposite now and would be incredibly inflammatory if voiced in public.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 10989693)

PS: And the quotable parts are far less inflammatory than half of what is written in "holy" books millions hold dear.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 10989500)

Keep in mind some religions are cultural and political too - and others are not so much. Most people in the West still assume all religions are basically the same when they are clearly not, in doctrine or in practise.

I don't know many English people would say one has to be a Christian to be English. Christianity simply doesn't teach such things, yet I don't think there would be one Saudi who would say one doesn't have to be Muslim to be Saudi...indeed the main requirement for citizenship in many Muslim states (most not all) would be being a Muslim, especially in the GCC. And in places where people are not Muslims they usually have to be registered and often take second place to the majority (like the Copts in Egypt).

To repeat myself, some religions in their very scriptures condone political and cultural dimensions - others are far more open and flexible, focusing not on the flesh but the mind and/or spirit.

N.

Originally Posted by Norm_uk (Post 10989818)

I wonder if the people who fought to remove politics from Christianity and restore it to a private belief system as Jesus taught it and the early Christians practised it called themselves moderates.

In my view they were actually fundamentalists - going back to the raw roots of the system. And I see Islamic fundamentalists as doing the same thing when they behead people to be honest. Totally different fundamentals makes for a totally different fundamentalist.

N.

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 10990137)

So are the fundamentalists simply a 21st century KKK, full of vengeance, but eventually to fade away and let the muslim equivalent of "church fete" religion provide a pleasant cultural backdrop?

Originally Posted by mikewot (Post 10989535)

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith."
Winston Churchill, The River War.

Originally Posted by Boomhauer (Post 10990152)

Whabhis/Salafists/Islamists are like the KKK in ideology .

Originally Posted by redShark (Post 10990159)

Churchill should be looked upon as a mere successful politician who had saved the country. In no way he should be looked upon as a man of moral values (judging by his racist views)