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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by redShark
(Post 11750339)
You don’t seem to understand what idolatry means in the first place to argue with me, otherwise you wouldn’t have confused the meaning of idolatory with the idea that someone can be spiritually closer to the creator if he is in a particular place on earth.
You deliberately cherry pick from my post to make your point. I’ve already in the first paragraph of my post explained to you what is the Islamic definition of idolatry. It is the act of representing God in a physical shape or object and fearing that object and directing the worship to it, believing that it is God or incarnation of God. Your other problem with me is your Christian background ( however hypocritically you are trying to conceal; By the way, it is the evangelists who use the word Muhammadenism) because your understanding of what is Holy is not necessarily my understanding. In Islam a holy place is a blessed place, in the sense that the rewards for the act of worships in that spot are multiplied. For your information, your state of confusion is well identified in Quran, it is called “the blinder of the hearts, not the eyes” |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by redShark
(Post 11750339)
...a holy place is a blessed place, in the sense that the rewards for the act of worships in that spot are multiplied.
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 11750387)
No it was the SSG (pak) who were involved in literally flushing them out I think
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Boomhauer
(Post 11750390)
Yeah I read it was them too. I think I also read that Musharaff was there during the seige?? I know he was given a tour inside the Kaaba some years back by the Al Sauds.
As far as the tour of inside goes, every country head of Pakistan is given that tour at least once when he / she visits as we are the special kind of 'friends' of the Sauds. We have the nukes and we have a bigger army and its our country that is fudged up because of their meddling and yet we somehow we are never equal in their eyes. |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 11747116)
Classic wahabi thinking yet again : "What I think is right and what everyone else thinks is wrong and I will presume to know what is in your heart and mind and instead of asking you about where you are coming from like an intelligent sane person, I will make an assumption about you and then condemn you for it and not just stop with the condemnation but if given a chance I will also try and punish you based on that assumption"
Shirk is a very very strong word and should not be thrown about but what do I know about religion eh? Based on your statement, anyone visiting the Prophet's grave in Medina is doing Shirk? What right have you or any wahabi nutter to make an assumption about what is inside a person's heart and mind when he goes to visit the Prophet's grave? Maybe he is there just to pay his respects, as 99.99% of all who do visit are doing exactly that : paying their respects at the grave of a man who was pivotal in giving you the same religion which you are carrying as a chip on your shoulder now! And it is written again and again in the Book to 'go and visit the old places where people before you lived as for those with knowledge there are many signs there' this is not verbatim ofcourse but I do know for a fact that it has been mentioned atleast more than 3 times And as for the idiots who do go to graves for worshiping them or asking for anything based on that location, just let those idiots be, who am I to judge anyone? for that matter, who are the Saudis or you to judge them? No one made you guys the protectors of this religion. Please live your own life and look to your own grave. |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 11751459)
Still waiting for an answer redshark!
Frankly speaking I don’t really take you seriously when it comes to discussing religious matters. Your knowledge of Islam is very moderate which is quite normal for someone who does not take his religion seriously. I myself very different as I am very serious about what I believe in, and I expect the same thing when somebody wishes to debate ethics/ theology with me, otherwise I just skip over. Regarding the point you raised, you seem to agree that there are deviant Muslims who wish to practice Shirk at the prophet’s grave (thanks to the Saudis, they are not allowed) , and that they are bad doers. But I disagree with you that they should be allowed to do so, because Haj has to be done in accordance with how Quran described it. Any one wishes to do something different he can do it in his own temple. Otherwise, what would make Islam different from other religions if it was not mainly for the issue of Shirk! To show you the seriousness of the subject of Shirik in Islam and to bring the idea closer to the British audience, the act of Shirk in Islam would amount, for example, to the Royal orchestra deliberately playing the French anthem when the Queen walks into the Royal Albert Hall. besides, you are confusing the issue. I am not against the practice of visiting graves, in fact it is a healthy Islamic practice for a muslim to visit grave yards in order to remember death and reflect on the idea that one day it will be his/her turn in there. That is entirely different from someone going to graves to ask help from the dead. |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by redShark
(Post 11752080)
Frankly speaking I don’t really take you seriously when it comes to discussing religious matters. Your knowledge of Islam is very moderate which is quite normal for someone who does not take his religion seriously. I myself very different as I am very serious about what I believe in, and I expect the same thing when somebody wishes to debate ethics/ theology with me, otherwise I just skip over.
. Fool. |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
(Post 11752126)
So serious, in fact, that your opening statement is in direct contrast with what you, as a devout Muslim (yeah, right) should be doing. I can just picture you with your sandal-clad foot firmly and deeply in your mouth.
Fool. |
Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
He is a carrot-muncher ? What a vile heresy !
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by scot47
(Post 11752269)
He is a carrot-muncher ? What a vile heresy !
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by redShark
(Post 11752080)
Frankly speaking I don’t really take you seriously when it comes to discussing religious matters. Your knowledge of Islam is very moderate which is quite normal for someone who does not take his religion seriously. I myself very different as I am very serious about what I believe in, and I expect the same thing when somebody wishes to debate ethics/ theology with me, otherwise I just skip over.
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 11752721)
:cool:
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by alfrombarking
(Post 11752710)
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Re: 65 dead in Mecca crane collapse. Death toll may rise.
Originally Posted by Millhouse
(Post 11752782)
I've had the pleasure of walking around the new jeddah airport terminal project a few times. No H&S standards at all.
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