Originally Posted by spouse of scouse (Post 11986908)

Quality debate there :thumbdown:

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11986914)

:goodpost:

read that earlier somewhere else & that is why I revised my list in the last post.

The UK would need or have to tighten them there borders & immigration without freedom of movement

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11986938)

As clearly enumerated in the linked-to article, neither the EEA nor Switzerland's agreeement would give you what you are looking for.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11986948)

it would need to be a made for the UK deal, with some sort of free trade with the EU countries, if no free trade type deal is available without the EU putting some conditions or restrictions to that which hinders the UK rights to control itself 100% [all of immigration, border controls, welfare, laws, tax, health etc] then the UK goes to wherever to the global market to get the deal that works. Similar to the Asian & sub-Asian countries including SA & OZ.

America could end up being a better trading partner for import & exports - whatever works best for the UK without being controlled or stranglehold by the EU or any country.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11986948)

it would need to be a made for the UK deal, with some sort of free trade with the EU countries, if no free trade type deal is available without the EU putting some conditions or restrictions to that which hinders the UK rights to control itself 100% [all of immigration, border controls, welfare, laws, tax, health etc] then the UK goes to wherever to the global market to get the deal that works.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986611)

The Tory leadership challenger that worries me most is Theresa May. She's kept herself out of the public eye. She's the perfect candidate from the Remain point of view because she avoided both campaigns and would be seen as neutral. But she's currently the Home Secretary and has form for being in favour of reducing immigration.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11986970)

Over 50% of UK exports go to the EU, EEA and Switzerland, with 11% to the US. That's a huge difference:

OEC - United Kingdom (GBR) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986978)

There will be no EU single-market deal without also having EU free movement as well.

Switzerland tried that two years ago and were told 'no way'.

Originally Posted by TrishP (Post 11986723)

A great article from Mark Mardell at the Beeb on the differing relationship mainland Europeans and Brits have with the EU:
Brexit: The story of an island apart - BBC News

"By the end of my time based in Brussels I was convinced that I had understood the key difference. To many in the UK being part of the EU was a hard-headed economic relationship, about free markets, selling and buying stuff. It was a sort of second best, a consolation prize after the loss of empire, but not one that had a similar place in patriots' hearts.
But for nearly all the other countries it was a refuge. It was a home they were constructing as a bulwark against history, against horror.
Germany was fleeing its role in spreading death and destruction to every corner of the continent, fleeing its own political ambitions. France was running away from defeat and occupation, from humiliation and powerlessness.
So were many other countries. Greece, Portugal and Spain found refuge - in an imagined future - from the real past of right-wing dictatorships. The countries of the East were replacing communist tyranny with a new attempt to create peace and democracy."

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 11986545)

Nicely worded.
I have no real strong feelings on any of this except that I am glad my assets are in Canada but I am fearful for my step mother who voted out but isn't worried about the value of her pension that shes only 7 days away from drawing on. As far as shes concerned she was promised a pension when she retires and she wants England to be a little island all by itself. Its romantic but that's all....

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills (Post 11985341)

The pound has come back some already. It's think where it was Last week from what I can tell.
Iit's over inflated anyway, makes it hard for exports.
A lower pound would be good for us exporting and for attracting more visitors from other countries. Not so good for retirees living elsewhere.
Lots of histrionics online on some other sites. Woah is me, we're all going to hell in a hand basket and It's all the fault of the older generations sticking it to the younger ones who are throwing their toys out of the pram and calling for another vote. Democracy isn't their strong point when they don't get their own way.

Originally Posted by Derrygal (Post 11987086)

Oh how smug you are!! Just as well you're not living in California now isn't it? Maybe if you were an expat about to retire this year and collect your British pension you'd be singing a different tune.

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11986547)

I'd like to give you something to really ponder over. Seriously since you say you like a good discussion.

I've always had nothing but admiration for the construct of the EU. For the ideal of it. Americans like me are pretty lucky that we've never had war on our front doorstep. And I mean literally at the front door, as Europeans have experienced. The Europeans who put the single market together wanted to keep any future megalomaniac from hoarding all his countries assets, all the while plotting world domination.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986611)

The Tory leadership challenger that worries me most is Theresa May. She's kept herself out of the public eye. She's the perfect candidate from the Remain point of view because she avoided both campaigns and would be seen as neutral. But she's currently the Home Secretary and has form for being in favour of reducing immigration.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11987119)

Yes but, barring any of the above, anybody from the EU could enter the UK freely and go anywhere without a passport.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11987119)

Ah, he's not a member. I did not know this.

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11987667)

Seriously? You did not know that Farage is not an MP?

:(

Not trying to throw flames on the discussion, but that's a very well known bit of information. I realize everyone has a right to their opinion. But I have to wonder what else you don't about the issues? :(

Originally Posted by aries (Post 11988058)

Nigel Farage is an MEP, Member of the European Parliament.

Originally Posted by aries (Post 11988058)

Nigel Farage is an MEP, Member of the European Parliament.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11986518)

Hello everyone.
What I heard this morning is beyond troubling.
Nigel Farage stated in an interview, that there is no guarantee of the money that was being sent to the EU will be put back in the NHS.:sneaky:
How does this man sleep at night?
Part of the exit campaign was based on keeping Britain's money IN BRITAIN.
It's unbelievable, he's just another deceptive (blank) out for his own interests.

What's bothersome is how Farage played the immigration card.
He played upon everybody's fears regarding that issue.
There is no way, Britain will kick out immigrants. If that happens, the EU will send British citizens back home. There's no way Britain will stop new immigrants from coming in (IF VETTED RIGHT). If that happens, UK citizens won't be able to settle anywhere except in the UK. I do agree that Britain should be managing their borders and keep out anyone who would cause harm.

At least the banks in Britain were smart to prepare for the Brexit vote. PM David Cameron just announced that provisions have been made for the next few years. I guess they knew Mr. Farage was hiding something.

Anyway, what's done is done. The vote has knocked world markets down for now but they will bounce back. Trade will continue and the U.S. will not abandon its' sister country. I still believe in the long run, Britain's exit from the EU will be a benefit and that other countries will follow.

Which brings me to Scotland. Hopefully, the Scottish people will wait to see what happens before declaring their independence. It wouldn't make sense for Scotland to remain in the EU if France, Italy and Greece are the next countries to depart.

Any other thoughts?

Please, no nasty responses
I love discussing issues but there's no need to be rude to each other.:britflag:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11988203)

I missed this post and this is not a nasty response I hope, but I'm gobsmacked by the naiveté of it,

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11988219)

I think your response is actually very restrained.

I also think that if people had actually bothered to check the claims made by both sides, the referendum would have had a different result.

Of course, if the media and politicians had been made to print the facts, it would have made it easier for the public to verify things.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11988240)

Without all the back office, home office peons doing what they have to on this Brexit workings, does the UK need to trigger 'article 50' - if not & it doesn't, then what happens, will it simply be the UK will remain in the EU until article 50 is triggered, or can the European parliament simply kick the UK out of the EU at some point?

Foregoing the above, I see in the newspapers that Cameron has said he will let the new leader of the conservative party (sometime after October) trigger article 50. Is that right, or can the UK from now till October trigger article 50?

.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11988267)

Nothing happens until HMG pull the trigger on Article 50. Legally the PM could just put it off indefinitely as the referendum is merely advisory.

Politically it would be impossible to do so without a fresh mandate, either another referendum or a general election where the winning party had made an explicitly Remain manifesto pledge. If Labour could dump Corbyn and get its sh*t together before September the latter might actually be a goer.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11987364)

No, they can't. EU nationals do have to show passports to enter the UK. Even UK nationals have to show passports.

EU nationals can freely enter any of the Schengen area countries without a passport. Neither the UK or Ireland are part of the Schengen area. QUOTE

Thank you for the clarification. It just proves that once again the American media (where I heard about the passport issue) has no idea what they're talking about (or they do know and won't broadcast it to US citizens).

Thank you for informing me about the Schengen area as well. I knew nothing about that until your post. This is what I meant when I once stated that Americans aren't as worldly as we think we are. No offense but there are many things we US folk don't know about when it comes to other countries. This is why I want to travel overseas.



QUOTE=The UK is not free from the EU though. There was a non-binding referendum, Parliament will decide whether to accept the result, then the UK government (whoever replaces Cameron in October) has to notify the EU that the UK is officially leaving by activating Article 50.

Then the UK has 2 years to leave (or longer if the EU agrees to an extension. QUOTE

Yes, I forgot about Article 50. Sorry about that.:o



QUOTE=With accurate information sharing, the bad guys details will be on the Schengen Information System database so that if they turn up at passport control, the immigration officer can make the correct decision.

Even though we're not a Schengen country, we still have access to the same database. If we're not in the EU, I doubt we'll keep that access. Will that improve our security?

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11988240)

Without all the back office, home office peons doing what they have to on this Brexit workings, does the UK need to trigger 'article 50' - if not & it doesn't, then what happens, will it simply be the UK will remain in the EU until article 50 is triggered, or can the European parliament simply kick the UK out of the EU at some point?

Foregoing the above, I see in the newspapers that Cameron has said he will let the new leader of the conservative party (sometime after October) trigger article 50. Is that right, or can the UK from now till October trigger article 50?

.

Originally Posted by Mallory (Post 11988252)

The person making the post is not British. He is someone who lives in another country, is taking an interest in what's going on, and trying to understand it all.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11988277)

I don't think the EU would be that vindictive to keep terrorist information away from the UK. If they did that, there would be outrage throughout the world. No way do I see that happening.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11988289)

I agree, the EU isn't going to withhold info on terrorists from the UK, but
Anti-Terrorism information is usually shared through the Police databases, not via the Schengen visa database.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11988276)

interesting is that - the 'mandate part', especially should the HMG just sit tight & not trigger article 50 (because it doesn't know what to do for the fear of triggering it causes a UK civil unrest or something so bad it would be irreversible) or, that the new Cons leader is a fence sitter, right down to maybe even a strong 'remain' in the EU backer - then it comes round to 'lets have another referendum' because it appears the public weren't informed previously of all the facts of what it means to leave the EU.


.

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11987667)

Seriously? You did not know that Farage is not an MP?

:(

Not trying to throw flames on the discussion, but that's a very well known bit of information. I realize everyone has a right to their opinion. But I have to wonder what else you don't about the issues? :(

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11988219)

I think your response is actually very restrained.

I also think that if people had actually bothered to check the claims made by both sides, the referendum would have had a different result.

Of course, if the media and politicians had been made to print the facts, it would have made it easier for the public to verify things.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11988289)

I agree, the EU isn't going to withhold info on terrorists from the UK, but
Anti-Terrorism information is usually shared through the Police databases, not via the Schengen visa database.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11988295)

currently done with CIA/FBI, MI5/6, Mossad & whomever else

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11988299)

Hi rebeccajo
No, I did not know about Mr. Farage but that's why I'm on this site, to learn about what really goes on in Britain. I'm not going to get the right information from the American press.:eek:

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11988203)

I missed this post and this is not a nasty response I hope, but I'm gobsmacked by the naiveté of it,

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11988299)

Hi rebeccajo
No, I did not know about Mr. Farage but that's why I'm on this site, to learn about what really goes on in Britain. I'm not going to get the right information from the American press.:eek:

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11988328)

The New York Times' coverage has been excellent; a lot better than many of the rags that pass for newspapers in the UK.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11989355)

what now, Cameron is back home, candidates are ready with their nominations to be the new leader.

Stephen Crabb at the forefront has been on the 'remain in the EU' - would this change anything, could article 50 be on hold & is it possible to have another referendum before the EU pushing to triggering Article 50 now?

As a side, Crabb has a French wife, not that it would make any difference what happens next

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11989376)

We won't know for definite the full list of candidates until after noon UK time tomorrow.

Personally though, I think it will be a Leave MP who wins, and who picks a mainly Leave Cabinet (though a neutral leader will likely be less confrontational in exit negotiations than a Leave-er). In this, Theresa May is a likely choice as a neutral, and Gove likely as a Leave-er.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11989379)

:goodpost: it should be an interesting few months ahead.

watch this space