Originally Posted by Editha (Post 11984183)

Westminster will not endorse a second Scottish Independence Referendum, but that does not prevent the Scots holding one anyway. Before the EU Referendum, opinion polls showed that the majority of Scots would support independence in the event of Brexit.

If the referendum showed a clear majority in favour of independence, then the political pressure on Westminster to accept the result would be enormous.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11984173)

Helpfully you've ignored all the changes that not2old suggested were going to happen immediately or in the very near future in his post I was replying to :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11984193)

That was before the crash in the price of oil made the Scots realise that the SNP's economic argument for an independent Scotland ('let's be Norway!') was hokum. Sturgeon will need to be absolutely sure that will win another referendum to call one else there won't be another one for at least 40 years.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11984230)

Fair enough.

Look, I was of the same opinion as you have, namely that the whole thing has been a pointless exercise because after a No vote the UK would remain in the EEA. It begins to look as if there are important elements in the EU who are so pissed off with the UK and so afraid of spreading contagion into several other countries, that this fall back will not be an option now.

Originally Posted by Editha (Post 11984254)

There were five opinion polls between January and April 2016, which asked Scots whether they would vote for independence in the event of Brexit. All five showed a majority for independence.

Since the UK has just voted for Brexit, despite the weight of expert opinion being overwhelmingly that it is against the UK's economic interests, I see no reason to assume that economic self-interest always trumps other factors.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11984276)

EU politicians, like the rest of us, are shellshocked by a result they never really expected. They called our bluff when Cameron went looking for reform ahead of the vote so the UK has just called theirs. As an institution it's currently teetering on the brink. Unless it finds a way to either drastically reform itself or introduce an associate 'EU-lite' option for the UK and others thinking of jumping ship then it's doomed. Business as usual is simply not an option.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11984319)

Well, Boris's bluff maybe. You remember that he wanted a second referendum after a further renegotiation at first but then (seemed to) walk away from that? Now he's trying to punt invoking Article 50 into the long grass.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11984346)

Perhaps but then no-one, not even Farage who conceded defeat as soon as the polls had closed, thought that Leave would win. Both Boris and Cameron's aims were the same - to use the referendum as a proxy war for leadership of the Conservative Party. Neither of them thought it would actually result in a change of status quo. Cameron only promised a referendum as he thought he would be back in a coalition government with the Lib Dems who would've vetoed it.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11984508)

Cameron didn't. Boris thought hard and took a calculated gamble at the appropriate moment. You're right that Cameron, Johnson and Farage (and myself) thought Remain would win at 10 pm on the 23rd. So did the City.

Originally Posted by Barrybriggs (Post 11984866)

Well, the s**t has definitely hit the fan. Britain is in turmoil. How far will the pound drop, remembering many British people live abroad and rely on steady, reasonable exchange rates.

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills (Post 11985341)

The pound has come back some already. It's where it was Last week from what I can tell.
I think it's over inflated anyway, makes it hard for exports.
A lower pound would be good for us exporting and for attracting more visitors from other countries. Not so good for retirees living elsewhere.
Lots of histrionics online on some other sites. Woah is me, we're all going to hell in a hand basket and It's all the fault of the older generations sticking it to the younger ones who are throwing their toys out of the pram and calling for another vote. Democracy isn't their strong point when they don't get their own way.

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11985435)

Use this handy link to check the state of sterling against other currencies.

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills (Post 11985341)

The pound has come back some already. It's where it was Last week from what I can tell.
I think it's over inflated anyway, makes it hard for exports.
A lower pound would be good for us exporting and for attracting more visitors from other countries. Not so good for retirees living elsewhere.
Lots of histrionics online on some other sites. Woah is me, we're all going to hell in a hand basket and It's all the fault of the older generations sticking it to the younger ones who are throwing their toys out of the pram and calling for another vote. Democracy isn't their strong point when they don't get their own way.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11984230)

Fair enough.

Look, I was of the same opinion as you have, namely that the whole thing has been a pointless exercise because after a No vote the UK would remain in the EEA. It begins to look as if there are important elements in the EU who are so pissed off with the UK and so afraid of spreading contagion into several other countries, that this fall back will not be an option now.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11985766)

Boris has just confirmed our suspicions.

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11985781)

Not in the way they can currently do as EU nationals. For example, there are vast differences between the amount of documentation required for EU nationals to live, work and purchase property in Malta than there is for non-EU nationals. It's likely to be so in other EU countries too.

Unless EU free movement is still part of a post-Brexit deal, the claim (though correct) lacks transparency that it won't be a simple matter anymore.

As the direct beneficiary of ECJ case law, I think the ECJ does a pretty good job. UK court can ask to ECJ for it's opinion but can choose to either accept that opinion or ignore it.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11985782)

The way I read it is that we're going to remain within the EEA like Norway or cut a bilateral deal like Switzerland so nothing practical is going to change.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11985786)

Other than we lose our EU Council of Ministers' seat, our EU Commissioner's seat, and our 73 MEP seats. And all of our input into drafting and changing EU regulations.....

And that's taking our country back apparently..... :rofl:

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 11985766)

Boris has just confirmed our suspicions.

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 11986030)

Yes. It's clearer now that his aim was for the opposite result, 52-48 remain. He would then have claimed that the margin for remain was too small to be an endorsement of Cameron's campaign and called for his ousting in October.

He hasn't got a clue how to deal with the leave vote.

Originally Posted by michali (Post 11986468)

My only hope is that someone really strong will succeed David Cameron, so someone in whom the world will have faith. Even though Boris and Michael are the front runners, the visible force in Brexit, there are others behind them and I do hope they are in fact creating a viable plan. It is so pathetic! We now hear of several Brexiters experiencing bregret. We also hear the young voters blaming the older ones for the way they voted. And yet we hear that there was a low turn out of young voters! What a farce! Meantime our economy which was doing so well is spiraling downwards.

Originally Posted by michali (Post 11986468)

My only hope is that someone really strong will succeed David Cameron, so someone in whom the world will have faith. Even though Boris and Michael are the front runners, the visible force in Brexit, there are others behind them and I do hope they are in fact creating a viable plan. It is so pathetic! We now hear of several Brexiters experiencing bregret. We also hear the young voters blaming the older ones for the way they voted. And yet we hear that there was a low turn out of young voters! What a farce! Meantime our economy which was doing so well is spiraling downwards.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11986518)

Hello everyone.
What I heard this morning is beyond troubling.
Nigel Farage stated in an interview, that there is no guarantee of the money that was being sent to the EU will be put back in the NHS.:sneaky:
How does this man sleep at night?
Part of the exit campaign was based on keeping Britain's money IN BRITAIN.
It's unbelievable, he's just another deceptive (blank) out for his own interests.

What's bothersome is how Farage played the immigration card.
He played upon everybody's fears regarding that issue.
There is no way, Britain will kick out immigrants. If that happens, the EU will send British citizens back home. There's no way Britain will stop new immigrants from coming in (IF VETTED RIGHT). If that happens, UK citizens won't be able to settle anywhere except in the UK. I do agree that Britain should be managing their borders and keep out anyone who would cause harm.

At least the banks in Britain were smart to prepare for the Brexit vote. PM David Cameron just announced that provisions have been made for the next few years. I guess they knew Mr. Farage was hiding something.

Anyway, what's done is done. The vote has knocked world markets down for now but they will bounce back. Trade will continue and the U.S. will not abandon its' sister country. I still believe in the long run, Britain's exit from the EU will be a benefit and that other countries will follow.

Which brings me to Scotland. Hopefully, the Scottish people will wait to see what happens before declaring their independence. It wouldn't make sense for Scotland to remain in the EU if France, Italy and Greece are the next countries to depart.

Any other thoughts?

Please, no nasty responses
I love discussing issues but there's no need to be rude to each other.:britflag:

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11986518)

I still believe in the long run, Britain's exit from the EU will be a benefit and that other countries will follow

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11986532)

I don't know if there are any official numbers out yet of the portion of each age demographic that voted. I am anxious to see those stats and if anyone has a link to them, please put it up.

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts (Post 11986541)

The economy is not spiralling downwards. The exchange rate and FTSE have been down for a couple of days for heavens sake. Keep some perspective.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11986549)

see if this works below

How Brexit vote broke down – POLITICO

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11986583)

No the answer isn't in those figures. Handy though.

Originally Posted by michali (Post 11986468)

My only hope is that someone really strong will succeed David Cameron, so someone in whom the world will have faith. Even though Boris and Michael are the front runners, the visible force in Brexit, there are others behind them and I do hope they are in fact creating a viable plan. It is so pathetic! We now hear of several Brexiters experiencing bregret.

Originally Posted by LoveFortheUK (Post 11986518)

Hello everyone.
What I heard this morning is beyond troubling.
Nigel Farage stated in an interview, that there is no guarantee of the money that was being sent to the EU will be put back in the NHS.:sneaky:

Originally Posted by rebeccajo (Post 11986547)

I'd like to give you something to really ponder over. Seriously since you say you like a good discussion.

I've always had nothing but admiration for the construct of the EU. For the ideal of it. Americans like me are pretty lucky that we've never had war on our front doorstep. And I mean literally at the front door, as Europeans have experienced. The Europeans who put the single market together wanted to keep any future megalomaniac from hoarding all his countries assets, all the while plotting world domination. The Europeans who put the EU together felt that free movement of people across the continent would improve the overall prospects of citizens. All would benefit from being able to work and live freely together.

I still think this is a noble, important ideal. Given the history of Europe, I frankly can't understand why this concept has been lost on people. I don't think it would be good at all for the EU to break up. I really don't understand why anyone would wish that. :(

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986611)

Britain's exit will allow the EU to function better without being hindered by a country that didn't want to be bound by the rules the UK helped create.

The UK secured permanent opt-outs from closer political union, the Schengen area, and the Euro, and Cameron got almost every concession he asked for before the referendum.

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11986793)

c&p'd what I posted on the Canada forum

"As I see it in simple terms - being a member of the EU is political, controlling & costly just to be a club member

Something for the UK might be the EEA?

Being in the EEA without all of the cost & the political BS is probably a better deal, says Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein, allows them to be part of the EU’s single market

http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreemen...basic-features

For the UK, why not have the 'sweat deal' that Switzerland has?

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_6.5.3.html"

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986859)

Because, as I said in post #179, we'd lose our seats at the EU tables where we currently can help make, shape, and change EU laws.

Norway and the other EEA countries have to follow about 75% of EU rules with no say in the making of them.

Are you sure this is what you want?

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 11986859)

Because, as I said in post #179, we'd lose our seats at the EU tables where we currently can help make, shape, and change EU laws.

Norway and the other EEA countries have to follow about 75% of EU rules with no say in the making of them.

Are you sure this is what you want?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11986869)

Judging from not2old's posts, he's not exactly in agreement with the free movement of labour that comes with EEA membership...

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 11986906)

Some bedtime reading for not2old:

EU immigration: Norway and Switzerland