UK Migration has to stop
 

the latest numbers from the ONS show increasing net migration to the UK - it has to stop.

Net migration into the UK rose by 50% to 318,000 last year, new figures show.

Net migration to UK reaches 318,000 - BBC News

Net migration to the UK was 318,000 in the year ending December 2014, according to the latest provisional estimates - ONS

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said this was a "statistically significant" rise of more than 109,000 compared with the previous year.

There were increases in both EU and non-EU migration, with the total figure close to 2005's all-time high.

- 45% non EU citizens
- 42% EU citizens (excluding Brits)
- 13% British citizens

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Those figures are staggering. The 13% British Citizens, are those Brits permanently returning to the UK ?

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

It would be interesting to see the break down on the non EU migrants. If 13% of the total are returning Brits maybe 8% of those are returning with non EU spouses or fiancés (just a guess!) which means the balance of non EU migrants (40%) are students and Tier workers?

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

the breakdown is in the link

Why are people immigrating to the UK?

The most common reason for migrating to the UK is work. This has been the case historically, with the exception of 2009 to 2012, when formal study was the most common main reason for migration.

In the year ending December 2014, a total of 284,000 immigrated for work-related reasons. This is a statistically significant increase from the previous year when 214,000 people immigrated for work-related reasons. Of those immigrating for work-related reasons in the year ending December 2014, 63% (178,000) came with a definite job to go to and 37% (106,000) came to look for work.

There were statistically significant increases in immigration for work amongst EU citizens and non-EU citizens. Provisional estimates from the International Passenger Survey (IPS) show that 58% (159,000) of those immigrating for work-related reasons were EU citizens (excluding British citizens) which was a statistically significant increase from 125,000 the previous year. 25% (68,000) were non-EU citizens, which was a statistically significant increase from 44,000 the previous year. The majority of other sources2 also show that immigration for work has increased over the last year for both EU and non-EU citizens.

The second most common reason for immigrating to the UK was formal study. In the year ending December 2014, a total of 193,000 people immigrated to the UK for formal study. Provisional estimates from the International Passenger Survey (IPS) show that the majority (135,000 or 72%) were non-EU citizens while 48,000 (26%) were EU citizens (excluding British citizens).

In the year ending December 2014, a total of 91,000 people arrived in the UK to accompany/join others. This was a statistically significant increase from 71,000 the previous year. Provisional estimates from the International Passenger Survey (IPS) show that the majority (52,000 or 59%) were non-EU citizens while 25,000 (28%) were EU citizens (excluding British citizens).

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

My math is not good but maybe 16% are non EU spouses or dependents of UKC's.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

The combined number of persons coming to the UK for work and study equals 74% of the total.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Take a city with an approximate equivalent population of 2014 net migration figures, for example Cardiff.

Cardiff has...

7 NHS hospitals and one private hospital.
3 Universities.
2 Further education colleges
20 Secondary schools + independent schools
98 State primary schools + independent schools

Seems logical to me that in just ONE YEAR we would have had to build the equivalent number of facilities to accommodate this increase in population to maintain some sort of status quo.

Then there's the housing, the transport, social services etc.etc.

Now if it was 'If we build it they will come', that wouldn't be so bad.

Instead we have the opposite, 'They will come and then we'll build it ,perhaps if we can find the money. Until then everybody squeeze in.'

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Are you talking about the marbles in a jar theory?

If you are going to go with that, you need a second jar for the tax dollars contributed by migrant workers.

And then you need to speak to the over-seer of that jar.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I'm talking about total mismanagement of immigration by the over-seer of the said jar. Have the infrastructure in place first, or at least planned as the second jar grows.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Just can't see this rise coming from the Tier workers. Not easy for students now either if their aim was to get to the UK and then get UK citizenship.

Of the enter the UK to work visas:
Tier 2 General had lots of changes from 2010: Maximum stay 6 years: must earn 35k from 2016 to have ILR after 5 years; must now earn the salary level set by the UKVI to get a visa: limited to just 20,700 maximum visas per year: the standand has risen to get a visa so that now only half that nuumber are getting that visa a year: That's a massive drop in numbers for this visa.

Tier 2 ICT visa. Since 2010 this visa no longer leads to UK citizenship; now has a maximum stay; visa standards set higher. ie no more using this visa to work as a waitor.

Tier 1 Investor is rising (already risen) to 2 million pounds.
The Tier 1 Entrepreneur needs 200k and are getting much harder to get.
Tier 1 General visa a very popular route that closed in 2010 and their extensions ended this April to stop those who never moved to the UK but keep extending this visa.

Students
Since 2010:
Undergradautes can't bring all their dependants now.
Many have had their work hours reduced from 20 hours a week to just 10 hours or no working at all.
Over 800(?) bogus colleges have been shut.
Those at the other colleges can't bring their dependants even if they are on a masters or PhD.
Now need to pass an English test for a student visa.
Those that used deception to pass their English test getting deported and banned.
Students now must show progession or no further visas.
The 2 year Tier 1 PSW work visa for those students that couldn't find any firm to sponsor them, closed in 2010.
These last two changes now mean that there is no more using student visas and a PSW visa to make 10 years legal stay to get ILR.
The 2010 raising of the Tier 2 General visa level to graduate type jobs only.


Family visas always used to be one of the highest numbers from non-EU immigration.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Yes but how many have left? We're those figures included too? It's not a one way street...

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Indeed. Over 60% of the number is accounted for by students. And as formula has pointed out, it is now very difficult to stay beyond the end of studies. Another 13% are British citizens who largely will have left at some prior point.

Edit: I see the OP mixes net and non-net figures. So students make up 30%, not 60% of the total immigrants. I don't see anything that details the number of students returning after the end of their studies.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

from the BBC report in the first OP extracted from the ONS report

"However, the scale of the challenge facing ministers in reducing levels of legal immigration was highlighted again by a net migration rise the size of the population of Coventry.

The figures measure the difference between the numbers of people moving the UK for a year or more and those leaving the UK for a year or more.

They reveal:
641,000 people moved to the UK over the period, with 323,000 going the other way 284,000 people immigrated for work, a 70,000 increase

The number of Romanian and Bulgarians moving to the UK doubled to 46,000 in 2014

Employment of non-British EU nationals in the UK in January to March 2015 was 283,000 higher than the previous year"

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Better stay put then.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

:goodpost:

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Stop all inward migration? Really?

From the way people are weeping and wailing I thought this would be millions, not hundreds of thousands, a figure which includes returning British citizens.

It's like some mind control is in play here.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Round numbers of 300,000/yr net migration is not a big number & if you consider [for the sake of discussion] take it that 50% are from the EU, of those, 50% have a few children while on British soil - the net result in 10 years could be an extra 5- million people population increase (just from the migrants alone) give or take a few. Time for the baby boomers to start dying off to make room for the migrants

As for the smaller number of non EU spouses of British citizens going into the UK that have to go through all of that FM visa route - it makes you wonder where the real immigration issue is?

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I don't even understand your second paragraph. The first is conjecture. Yes maybe the baby boomers have been ruling the roost for too long. Someone has to pay for the NHS etc.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

What's all this about jars ? :unsure:

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

It seems to me that the best way to get NET-migration down would be to have a truly crumby economy such that loads would want to leave, including the brightest and best (reminds me of the 60s and 70s) and nobody would want to come. Would that make us happy?

It does send a confusing message :blink: when expats looking inwards at the UK are complaining at levels of migration into the UK mostly from migrants (and their spouses) looking to work or students looking to get further educated and then leave.

The migrants are far more likely to be desperately-needed net contributors to the UK economy than returning expats who have often been raised in the UK at taxpayer expense and who then leave to pay their taxes elsewhere and then look to return right when their earnings power is least and their drain on health and other care is highest.

Expats may be British but citizenship doesn't seem to feature much in present-day UK conversation other than amongst the UKIP-type moaners. Both major :o political parties talk of contribution and fairness more these days.

It seems to me that the inwards migration numbers were a problem long ago when unskilled workers arrived in huge numbers simply because they could due to a lack of foresight on the part of the powers that be when other nations properly planned for the effects of EU enlargement. Today's numbers are minute in comparison.

Clearly the UK 'indigenous' workforce is not providing the 'talent' that is needed to sustain current employer needs so those employers are looking elsewhere and particularly outside the EU. Many are crying out for the skills that are simply lacking 'locally' if only due to the mis-match between potential indigenous employee aspirations and actual demand.

As in the US, admittedly we are seeing a hollowing out of the middle employee ground due to automation and decline in business activity in financial services specifically here in the UK, and the rest is not being helped by globalisation, particularly in manufacturing. Unfortunately the now inevitable reality of a decline of decent job opportunities in mature western economies is not part of the conversation. It needs to be or it will create a profound shock. This makes it doubly important that the UK cultivate a 'local' workforce in the niche technical/engineering areas it is so good at by engaging kids at secondary school level so that they don't end up joining the queue for jobs as a barista at the newly-opening Costa Coffee, as a university graduate in media studies.

Employers, it seems, now tend to increase UK productivity - such as it is, at the bottom-end of the scale in Europe - by seeking cheaper 'hungrier' labour rather than through innovation, investment and training and importing the skills plays into this. This indeed is a problem and is a big reason why employers would want to stay in the EU.

Better-directed education and careers guidance, which amongst other things would portray a career in the sciences as being more exciting with substantial rewards, would help to alleviate all of this, in my view. Increased funding for apprenticeships is a step in the right direction.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Very good post.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Likely the inward migration of some 600,000+ is not such a big issue, with possibly a closer look at the 300,000 or so outbound migration numbers

Could this be a revival of the 50's, 60's & 70's. when folks were migrating all over the place, when Brits & Europeans were migrating to OZ, USA, Canada, SA or just that its the 'brain drain' game & within it the 'EU freedom of movement is the new frontier?

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Yes. Indeed. Thanks, pete.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Not from the fiqures. The UK limits the visas for the talent that is needed by UK employers to 20,700 per year (unless they are on the shortages list or earn a salary of over about 156,00). Yet only half of those limited visas are used by employers each year. That limit is reviewed annually and has never needed to rise.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Good lord, are we still seeing posts like this? I can remember in 2005 getting together with a bunch of people on here, many of whom were moving to Australia to get away from "all the immigrants" moving to the UK.

How bloody retarded, and ironic.

Most first world economies are facing devastation over the next 20 years because of the crumbling economic base propping up the retiring baby boomers, the influx of immigrants into the UK has actually raised the birth rate for the first time in decades to a point where the UK might be able to actually afford the over inflated expectations of the retiring masses.

This is an immigration forum, how ironic that people are still complaining about immigrants when they are quite happy to become immigrants themselves...

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

When British nationals immigrate, they don't call themselves 'immigrants.' They call themselves, 'expats.'

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

The BIG difference with the british emmigrating is the they-we put a lot in to the economy of the country that we emigrate to. Buying or renting property, spending our hard earned cash. Where as as many of the immigrants to the UK come as scroungers and take advantage of all the freebies, then bring in there relatives and so it grows and is exploited even more.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Speaking personally, I put absolutely nothing into the economy of Canada during the 8 years I was there, other than buying a property, but apart from making it harder for a Canadian to afford a home, I can't see what my 'contribution' was. None of my cash has been hard earned either, in fact nowadays most of it is inherited wealth. But, I was quite happy to take advantage of Canada's excellent health service, libraries and arts subsidies.

Nor have I ever known an immigrant to the UK who came to 'scrounge'. Nowadays most of the immigrants I meet are eastern europeans working in the catering industry. And I'm always pleased to see them since their presence almost almost guarantees clean plates ad cutlery and a better quality of food than when British staff are employed.

And by the way, adopting an air of racial superiority went out of fashion around 1945.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I wonder how the Navajo and the Australian Aborigines feel about this debate.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Agree.

You've probably met some immigrants in the NHS too? Plenty of foreign doctors, nurses, care workers, etc..

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I often wonder that. :thumbup:

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

True. I broke my foot last October and for the next few months had to pay regular visits to the fracture clinic. In the waiting room they had the doctors' names up on the board. OH and I passed the time by guessing the nationalities of the doctors from their surnames.
The one who treated me was a Croat or a Serb I think, but sadly not as good looking as Goran Višnjić.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Buffoon.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Yeh, I think that post deserves a "most arrogant post of the year" award.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

A great book which I have just finished reading is 'Bloody Foreigners' by Robert Winder. Immigration to Britain has been an issue since time immemorial but, ironically, it is immigrants that started some of our most well known businesses and institutions!

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

Good thing only a few of them have these anti-immigrant sentiments or else they'll be pushing out all the British descendants back to the UK. Hahahhahaha...

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I imagine if they could turn back the clock, they would.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

It does make me laugh, before I left the UK in 2005, most of the doctors I ever went to in Bristol were Indian, because they had come to the UK to receive world class training whilst receiving less than top tier wages. Without them the NHS would be stuffed.

Look around London and you will find very few white Brits doing the "menial" tasks like sweeping the streets or driving cabs. Britain would be lost without the influx of immigrants to do the shitty jobs that over entitled Brits can't be bothered to do whilst they can still scrounge off the dole.

This isn't the age of empire any more, we can't go goose stepping round the globe, plundering Johnny foreigner at the point of a bayonet. This sort of racism and xenophobia went out of fashion with Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson and the 70's.

Re: UK Migration has to stop
 

I don't think we ever 'went goose-stepping' anywhere. Wrong baddy.