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Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Old Jul 23rd 2013, 11:13 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

To the OP…..

My own situation is that I’ve been contemplating a return for the past three years, taking on board trips back to the UK and ongoing research and implementing as much due diligence as is humanly possible. Unfortunately, I have a heart v. head conflict. My heart isn’t influenced by thoughts of fish and chips, familiar pubs or even family, but is encouraged by a sense of belonging or little phrases I’ve picked up from this forum, such as “ being back was like slipping into a pair of well worn slippers - trottytrue” or more recently by a poster whose name escapes me - “ finally I can start being me.”

My head however looks at the reality of what life would be like for me and my family should I return and consequently doing as much research as possible. It’s fine to take onboard other peoples opinions and experiences, but unless your situation mirrors theirs exactly, it is nothing more than hearsay.

I wish you well, do your research and don’t make the biggest mistake that most people make when they move to another country or return to their homeland - “Do not just listen to what you want to hear, keep an open mind.”
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Old Jul 23rd 2013, 11:31 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
I wish you well, do your research and don’t make the biggest mistake that most people make when they move to another country or return to their homeland - “Do not just listen to what you want to hear, keep an open mind.”
Good advice. Sometimes it's more important to listen to the things you don't want to hear in case there is any truth to them.
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Old Jul 23rd 2013, 11:54 pm
  #183  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
To the OP…..

My own situation is that I’ve been contemplating a return for the past three years, taking on board trips back to the UK and ongoing research and implementing as much due diligence as is humanly possible. Unfortunately, I have a heart v. head conflict. My heart isn’t influenced by thoughts of fish and chips, familiar pubs or even family, but is encouraged by a sense of belonging or little phrases I’ve picked up from this forum, such as “ being back was like slipping into a pair of well worn slippers - trottytrue” or more recently by a poster whose name escapes me - “ finally I can start being me.”

My head however looks at the reality of what life would be like for me and my family should I return and consequently doing as much research as possible. It’s fine to take onboard other peoples opinions and experiences, but unless your situation mirrors theirs exactly, it is nothing more than hearsay.

I wish you well, do your research and don’t make the biggest mistake that most people make when they move to another country or return to their homeland - “Do not just listen to what you want to hear, keep an open mind.”
We're of a similar state of mind I think. I have found it hard to find objective information from most people who have moved in either direction, and all seem intent on colouring their new landscape with the desire to have been right to go there in the first place. One rule I made as far as this site goes is never listen to anyone extolling the virtues of where they live unless they have lived there for at least two years, because otherwise it's just the honeymoon phase. This was certainly the case for me - in fact I would say I didn't start to see the place objectively for closer to three years.

I found that the "fish and chips, pub" etc stuff actually was all a major disappointment, and nothing like I had been recalling. Where we disagree, I think, is that for me family was/is a major issue. It had been many years since I had seen my family and I realised at once the scale of what I had taken out of my life. This one fact has made me revise everything and put me in a sort of expat limbo. Despite the objections of others on here (which they are perfectly entitled to do and I am not dismissing their views), Australia has a very high standard of living - second highest in the world according to the research, and we feel this to be right. I have many criticisms of Australia, some very serious, but this fact is boiling the issue down to being better off Vs being closer to family.

Last edited by Zen10; Jul 23rd 2013 at 11:58 pm.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 12:11 am
  #184  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

I hope I didn't sound dismissive about family ties and values, it's just that our situation is different in that family roots have been put down here in the US and returning to the UK would mean leaving behind children and grandchildren. I often wonder what our parents really thought when we decided to emigrate, although they were supportive on the outside, I'm sure deep within there was a lot of pain and sorrow.

I honestly believe that those of us who emigrate never fully understand what the long term consequences could be.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 12:19 am
  #185  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
I hope I didn't sound dismissive about family ties and values, it's just that our situation is different in that family roots have been put down here in the US and returning to the UK would mean leaving behind children and grandchildren. I often wonder what our parents really thought when we decided to emigrate, although they were supportive on the outside, I'm sure deep within there was a lot of pain and sorrow.

I honestly believe that those of us who emigrate never fully understand what the long term consequences could be.
We're the other end of the equation with parents and grandparents in Britain, and young children here in Australia. We started our family here in Australia and while family has visited us here, it wasn't until our return to the UK that we realised how we had divided the family. We can easily have a better life here in material terms, but I ask myself, how does this measure against all family being on the other side of the planet. Remember, we have big time zone issues and also the seasons are reversed so we have the opposite experiences day to day of our families, so that shared link is gone. Also, thanks to unregulated airlines we have to find $10,000 to take our family back to Britain, where it would cost more like $6000 to make the same trip in reverse.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 1:51 am
  #186  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by chris955 View Post
Dont you just love surveys, there is one to suit everyone. This one again seems to rank us above Australia.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/24/...endly-nations/

Dont worry Im not taking any of this seriously, these surveys and studies are meaningless to most people.
Neither should you!! But the two links you just put up Chris are a really valuable resource: to prove that surveys are a sack of .hite!

Those two show different countries at being 'the best to bring up chillens'.
How ludicrous it all is, aren't you all tired of this?

When I left the UK in 1977, the same thing was being said: everything was going downward /the place was doomed/this was wrong/that was wrong.
Then Thatcher came to power, and turned that to reality. (Just my little political 'joke'....).

I admit I didn't as such 'come to Australia'. I left Britain. But not for any of the incessant garbage regularly trotted out to sell newspapers.

Do things actually get better anywhere? No. I think they get harder, not least because the 'housekeepers' (polishituns) couldn't organise a .iss up in a brewery!

Decide what is best for you-and your current circumstances; based on as much general information as you can get.

Based on my situation; my circumstances; my outlook as well, the UK is best for me.
Fish and chips/decent chocolate etc, are as valid to others as they are invalid to some. For me nothing is more relevant than geography/climate/history/environment. For me.

What I will continue to dislike is not so much the running down of a country to elevate ones decision to leave it, though that irritates me;-but the denial that that is being done because it is done with a degree of subtlety! Not nice.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 2:04 am
  #187  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Don't worry...I'm not taking you seriously.

Sure, the conclusion of a study or survey isn't meaningful for everybody...but it isn't necessarily meaningless for everybody either. What is worrying though is that there appears to be a lot more pessimism than optimism...and more than can be explained away by the British propensity for having a good moan. Foreign assessments also paint a bleak picture of the British economy and its future. In the US, the outlook is actually pretty positive and the feeling is that a real recovery is underway.

The UK is in bad shape economically - no-one can dispute that. Hopefully it has bottomed out. But the general consensus is that it will be a long, slow recovery and that most people will have to adjust to a lower standard of living. In global terms, this situation is hardly unique so the UK still ranks as one of the most desirable places to live along with many EU countries and other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, etc. I'm sure I could live quite happily in the UK or any of those other countries.

If I moved back to the UK, I don't think I'd be able to match the standard of living that I currently enjoy in the US. My salary, home ownership and healthcare situations would certainly be worse in the UK. Granted, the healthcare situation here in the US is only better for me because I have a good health insurance plan and fast and easy access to excellent doctors, specialists, hospitals and clinics for me and my family. I dread to think how we would cope if we didn't have health insurance in the US. But our current situation is better than it would be if we had to rely on the NHS (longer waits for services, etc). Of course I could be gunned down in a movie theatre and then my point of view could change drastically - if I'm still around to have one. Then again I could also be stabbed by a chav somewhere in the UK.

Like I said before, there is a lot I miss about the UK. I still have a lot of friends and family there. I miss fish and chips, the beer, going to football matches and the easy access to Europe among other things.

Is it all doom and gloom in the UK? No, but it is for some people and possibly for more people than ever before. There are pros/cons to living there - same as any other country. Is it better in Australia or the US that it is in the UK? That depends on who you ask - their personal situation and preferences will shape their definition of "better". Some people will say "no"...but some will say "yes".

So the real answer to the OP's question is really "it depends".
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 3:06 am
  #188  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
We're the other end of the equation with parents and grandparents in Britain, and young children here in Australia. We started our family here in Australia and while family has visited us here, it wasn't until our return to the UK that we realised how we had divided the family. We can easily have a better life here in material terms, but I ask myself, how does this measure against all family being on the other side of the planet. Remember, we have big time zone issues and also the seasons are reversed so we have the opposite experiences day to day of our families, so that shared link is gone. Also, thanks to unregulated airlines we have to find $10,000 to take our family back to Britain, where it would cost more like $6000 to make the same trip in reverse.
Yes, the distance does complicate matters much more for those in Australia. Our target, wealth and health being positive, is to spend six months in both countries. Time will tell.
I wish you well in all you decided to do.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 3:40 am
  #189  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Bud the wiser.....I agree with you, I often think of my parents when I first decided to emigrate to the US. My Dad was quite old but he never said a word about how he really felt about his youngest daughter not only getting married but leaving the country. I returned months later and the happiness on his face was something I will never forget. I was able to be with him when he died. But I didnt learn anything from my first mistake and did it again 5 years later. Again my Mother said nothing but now I think back it must have been heartbreaking for her to see her only daughter leaving. Yes I visited and yes she came to the US many times but I was not able to be with her when she got older and sick.

In the end we have to make peace with our decisions and leave them in the past but if I can ever make someone think twice about staying or leaving or returning home then I will be happy.
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I firmly believe the sentence below is so true. I no longer revisit why I did what I did because I will never understand it. I can blame others for my decision but in the end it was me who said yes. Perhaps if 'I" had really thought about it very carefully I would have said no. A Crystal Ball would have helped

"I honestly believe that those of us who emigrate never fully understand what the long term consequences could be."
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 4:39 am
  #190  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
I honestly believe that those of us who emigrate never fully understand what the long term consequences could be.
I agree.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 5:36 am
  #191  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
I hope I didn't sound dismissive about family ties and values, it's just that our situation is different in that family roots have been put down here in the US and returning to the UK would mean leaving behind children and grandchildren. I often wonder what our parents really thought when we decided to emigrate, although they were supportive on the outside, I'm sure deep within there was a lot of pain and sorrow.

I honestly believe that those of us who emigrate never fully understand what the long term consequences could be.
This has been picked up by others. I don't know how I could have missed it.
For me this is profoundly true, but for different circumstances again.

We are all fallible human beings, we do what we think is right at the time.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 6:56 am
  #192  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Bud the Wiser View Post
Yes, the distance does complicate matters much more for those in Australia. Our target, wealth and health being positive, is to spend six months in both countries. Time will tell.
I wish you well in all you decided to do.
And I you, Bud.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 8:17 am
  #193  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked View Post
Neither should you!! But the two links you just put up Chris are a really valuable resource: to prove that surveys are a sack of .hite!

Those two show different countries at being 'the best to bring up chillens'.
How ludicrous it all is, aren't you all tired of this?

When I left the UK in 1977, the same thing was being said: everything was going downward /the place was doomed/this was wrong/that was wrong.
Then Thatcher came to power, and turned that to reality. (Just my little political 'joke'....).

I admit I didn't as such 'come to Australia'. I left Britain. But not for any of the incessant garbage regularly trotted out to sell newspapers.

Do things actually get better anywhere? No. I think they get harder, not least because the 'housekeepers' (polishituns) couldn't organise a .iss up in a brewery!

Decide what is best for you-and your current circumstances; based on as much general information as you can get.

Based on my situation; my circumstances; my outlook as well, the UK is best for me.
Fish and chips/decent chocolate etc, are as valid to others as they are invalid to some. For me nothing is more relevant than geography/climate/history/environment. For me.

What I will continue to dislike is not so much the running down of a country to elevate ones decision to leave it, though that irritates me;-but the denial that that is being done because it is done with a degree of subtlety! Not nice.
The great thing about these surveys is that there is one to suit everyone. There will be one to confirm that the UK has gone to the dogs and you would be mad to return and then there will be some more factual ones
For us moving here was easy, no agonising over the decision, it was what we wanted to do and we did it. It wasnt entirely smooth sailing as you would expect but it has been the entirely correct decision.
I love Australia, I grew up there and almost all my family is there BUT it just doesnt give us what we want. Having a BBQ on the beach isnt important to us, it is very important for others and that is fine and Australia will suit those people.
What I have noticed is the growing positivity generally, we are on the fringe of the Midlands and they were just talking about the 70% increase in foreign investment in the region, mortgages increasing, jobs being created etc.
The way I look at it is if your heart is in the UK then come here, its a great country to live but if your heart is in Australia or the US or wherever then stay there. Its kind of simple really
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 12:48 pm
  #194  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

I think it really depends on what you are after. I tried moving back to the UK in 2005 and after only nine months decided to leave again. The problem for me was that I left the UK IN 1988 so going back after all that time I found a lot of changes.

The biggest change that was easy to see was there was no sense of community spirit anymore, certainly where I was there wasn't. I also found most things a hassle, i.e. opening a bank account took me three months because I had cut all ties many years before, even then they would only give me a cash card and not a debit card. They told be it was because I had no credit history and quite why I need a credit history to spend my own money is beyond me.

Telephone, mobile phone contract and satellite tv was again difficult due to having no credit history.

When I lived in the US, Australia and Dubai all these things were very simple. I found the cost of living much higher and the tax system was horrendous.

I live in Lithuania now and things are nice and simple and straight forward here and I work one month on and one month off in the oil industry.

The best thing to do is try it and if you don't like it you can always go back.
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Old Jul 24th 2013, 1:02 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Forres View Post
I think it really depends on what you are after. I tried moving back to the UK in 2005 and after only nine months decided to leave again. The problem for me was that I left the UK IN 1988 so going back after all that time I found a lot of changes.

The biggest change that was easy to see was there was no sense of community spirit anymore, certainly where I was there wasn't. I also found most things a hassle, i.e. opening a bank account took me three months because I had cut all ties many years before, even then they would only give me a cash card and not a debit card. They told be it was because I had no credit history and quite why I need a credit history to spend my own money is beyond me.

Telephone, mobile phone contract and satellite tv was again difficult due to having no credit history.

When I lived in the US, Australia and Dubai all these things were very simple. I found the cost of living much higher and the tax system was horrendous.

I live in Lithuania now and things are nice and simple and straight forward here and I work one month on and one month off in the oil industry.

The best thing to do is try it and if you don't like it you can always go back.
This is exactly why you need to hear different opinions. Where we are the sense of community is fantastic and a real pleasure after where we used to live. Everyone (99%) are really friendly and helpful.
Opening a bank account was easy, one trip in to the bank and half an hour later we had an account and within a few days a debit card, that was after 12 years away.
The only major hassle we had was the gas because of a mix up with another property with a similar address which took a couple of weeks to sort. TV, internet, phone couldnt have been easier.
We also came back with no credit history but it didnt cause any problems. You may find things have moved on again since 2005.
Im not saying our experiences will be the same for everyone.
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