Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Jan 22nd 2008, 5:35 am
#661
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Location: Castle Hill, Sydney (previously Brum)
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Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I guess there's always another side to the story...we loved the composites. It gave my kids the opportunity to do more advanced work and stopped them getting bored brainless.
This is high school we're talking about though. That system would work if there was just one particular school in an area which was popular and oversubscribed to, but if every school in the Northern area of Brum is full....madness!
I think the Aussie system is brilliant. Everyone knows where they stand. You go to your 'local' school and if you have a good reason not to, you can apply elsewhere, if you don't have a good reason for not going there, then you can go private!
The only good thing about the conversations on the phone last night to schools/LEA was that I got to talk to some really lovely, friendly Poms...just a pity they had such bad news for me!
This is high school we're talking about though. That system would work if there was just one particular school in an area which was popular and oversubscribed to, but if every school in the Northern area of Brum is full....madness!
I think the Aussie system is brilliant. Everyone knows where they stand. You go to your 'local' school and if you have a good reason not to, you can apply elsewhere, if you don't have a good reason for not going there, then you can go private!
The only good thing about the conversations on the phone last night to schools/LEA was that I got to talk to some really lovely, friendly Poms...just a pity they had such bad news for me!
I appealed and won when my daughter was refused a place at our local school - we were literally a few streets away FFS! - so it does happen. As SGG says, you will be in a stronger position when you are there.
I agree that the UK system can be quite ludicrous (see above) but the downside of the Aussie policy to accept any child who applies is that you get these awful composite classes, sometimes spanning 2-3 different years, to accommodate all the "extra" children that don't make up a class. We had a very bad experience in this regard and it took my daughter two years to catch up to her peers again.
It must be rather stressful for you trying to get all this sorted though. Good luck.
I agree that the UK system can be quite ludicrous (see above) but the downside of the Aussie policy to accept any child who applies is that you get these awful composite classes, sometimes spanning 2-3 different years, to accommodate all the "extra" children that don't make up a class. We had a very bad experience in this regard and it took my daughter two years to catch up to her peers again.
It must be rather stressful for you trying to get all this sorted though. Good luck.
Jan 22nd 2008, 7:33 am
#663
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,606
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Same as in the UK, except when year groups are 'full', waiting lists then operate for new pupils on a 'one in, one out' basis. Quite common actually. And sensible, although frustrating to those new into areas obviously.
This also occurs in parts of NZ where everyone is meant to get a place at their local school regardless. Sometimes the Board of Governers 'close' to new applicants to protect the education standards of the school and its existing students. Looking at it objectively, it makes sense. But I can see it is tricky for the upwardly mobile.
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:12 am
#664
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Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Yes, but this is the problem we have with the UK...the year group is full at schools for the entire Northern Birmingham area. Basically we have to home school or put them on a bus across the City and beyond. REally not a safe option. Nothing to do with being upwardly mobile, I can just see how diabolical this system is. I'm starting to hear all sorts of stories about, not so much not getting into a good school, but having to travel 20 kms or more to get to a dreadful school. Sigh...it's all getting pretty bleak. OK, so where's a nice (affordable) area with high schools that aren't full to the gunnels?
Same as in the UK, except when year groups are 'full', waiting lists then operate for new pupils on a 'one in, one out' basis. Quite common actually. And sensible, although frustrating to those new into areas obviously.
This also occurs in parts of NZ where everyone is meant to get a place at their local school regardless. Sometimes the Board of Governers 'close' to new applicants to protect the education standards of the school and its existing students. Looking at it objectively, it makes sense. But I can see it is tricky for the upwardly mobile.
This also occurs in parts of NZ where everyone is meant to get a place at their local school regardless. Sometimes the Board of Governers 'close' to new applicants to protect the education standards of the school and its existing students. Looking at it objectively, it makes sense. But I can see it is tricky for the upwardly mobile.
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:46 am
#665
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Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:01 am
#666
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Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
O.k, do you want to stay around the Midlands for starters? If so, here's a little list of areas I've lived in, very happily, and they have decent schools;
Bromsgrove; South Bromsgrove High has a good reputation and my niece came out with good 'A' level grades, Duke of Edinburgh etc,. If you live north Bromsgrove i.e Lickey area (gorgeous) then the kids would go to Waseley Hills high and that too has a good reputation.
Southam; This is just outside Leamington Spa and is a nice large village/small town. The high school there is good too, so I hear. The villages surrounding Southam are picturesque and you'd still pick up a 3 bed semi there for around the 180k GBP. We used to live in Bishops Itchington, so lovely........fab little pub that never closed
Brum is over populated and congested, always has been and it's only going to get worse over the years to come. You'd be wise to move away from it.
I know you're frustrated about the crowded schools and you keep comparing it to the Aussie system, but remember, there are 62 million peeps living in Blighty, there's 21 million in Aus so it's bound to be a little 'cosier'!!
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:13 am
#667
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Posts: 723
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I was just on the phone to the UK starting to sort out schools for our 'trial' return....well, that was the plan. The area we were going to has 4 high schools...all of them full! Now here, of course, the area school would just have to make room, but not in the UK. We've just been told that the only places are at schools that are on the Worcester/Brum border and that's where they'd have to attend even if living in the North of Brum. The other option is to homeschool! There are 'appeal' committees, but apparently they are rarely sucessful!
Now what do we do?
I can't believe it....(sounding like Victor Meldrew) it's like a 3rd world system. The staff at the LEA were ever so supportive and helpful and were frustrated with the system themselves, but absolutely nothing they could do.
So basically our whole 6 weeks of 'trialling the education system of the UK' would involve sitting at home! There's no way I'd put my young kids on a bus 20 km across the city each day. I can see my hopes for returning being whittled away and I just feel desperately low at the moment.
Now what do we do?
I can't believe it....(sounding like Victor Meldrew) it's like a 3rd world system. The staff at the LEA were ever so supportive and helpful and were frustrated with the system themselves, but absolutely nothing they could do.
So basically our whole 6 weeks of 'trialling the education system of the UK' would involve sitting at home! There's no way I'd put my young kids on a bus 20 km across the city each day. I can see my hopes for returning being whittled away and I just feel desperately low at the moment.
I am a bit confused here. Are you saying that you want to get your children into a school for 6 weeks only to try them out?
When do you want to do this because if it is for September then the people at the Education Dept are being economical with the truth to put it diplomatically. Allocations are done right up to August so nobody knows whether that year group is full yet for the start of the academic year. If you are looking at a late admission then I can see what they are saying. Wouldn't you better off asking for a week's trial at different schools as you are not sure whether you will be moving back anyway.
I have done a whole heap of research on this subject and have found the Ed Department, helpful as they are, to be a little bit lacking in their knowledge of the system so I really wouldn't take everything you hear as gospel.
There are new Codes of Admission/Appeals that have/are coming out. One came out on 17th January and the other is coming into force on the 28th Feb. Why don't you download the booklets from your potential council's website and read through them.
Regarding your comments on the system being easy for admission in Oz, I can only speak for Perth but it is not as easy as people may think. My daughter was refused a place at the one and only school in the suburb where I live. I had no idea I could appeal and ended up ringing 15 other schools to see if one would take my daughter. 12 were state schools who refused her a place because she was out of catchment and 3 were private who said they were full up and the waiting lists at 2 of them were closed.
Th school where my daughter was a refused a place is now telling applicants they "can offer a seat in a class but not an education" That is the principal's mantra.
Eventually I found a lovely little school who would take her but she had to go in a composite class which has done her no favours whatsoever and although she is happy there she is bored having been put down 2 years from UK level because of her birthdate. It might be easier in NSW but in Perth that has not been the case for us.
The bottom line is more schools need to built everywhere. The infrastructure is not keeping up with the population growth but thats another thread
I think someone said that school governers control the appeals system but if that was the case it has now changed under the new Appeals Code. As I read it anybody who cannot make an impartial decision is not allowed to be on the Appeals Panel.
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:26 am
#668
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2007
Location: northamptonshire
Posts: 108
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I am a bit confused here. Are you saying that you want to get your children into a school for 6 weeks only to try them out?
When do you want to do this because if it is for September then the people at the Education Dept are being economical with the truth to put it diplomatically. Allocations are done right up to August so nobody knows whether that year group is full yet for the start of the academic year. If you are looking at a late admission then I can see what they are saying. Wouldn't you better off asking for a week's trial at different schools as you are not sure whether you will be moving back anyway.
I have done a whole heap of research on this subject and have found the Ed Department, helpful as they are, to be a little bit lacking in their knowledge of the system so I really wouldn't take everything you hear as gospel.
There are new Codes of Admission/Appeals that have/are coming out. One came out on 17th January and the other is coming into force on the 28th Feb. Why don't you download the booklets from your potential council's website and read through them.
Regarding your comments on the system being easy for admission in Oz, I can only speak for Perth but it is not as easy as people may think. My daughter was refused a place at the one and only school in the suburb where I live. I had no idea I could appeal and ended up ringing 15 other schools to see if one would take my daughter. 12 were state schools who refused her a place because she was out of catchment and 3 were private who said they were full up and the waiting lists at 2 of them were closed.
Th school where my daughter was a refused a place is now telling applicants they "can offer a seat in a class but not an education" That is the principal's mantra.
Eventually I found a lovely little school who would take her but she had to go in a composite class which has done her no favours whatsoever and although she is happy there she is bored having been put down 2 years from UK level because of her birthdate. It might be easier in NSW but in Perth that has not been the case for us.
The bottom line is more schools need to built everywhere. The infrastructure is not keeping up with the population growth but thats another thread
I think someone said that school governers control the appeals system but if that was the case it has now changed under the new Appeals Code. As I read it anybody who cannot make an impartial decision is not allowed to be on the Appeals Panel.
When do you want to do this because if it is for September then the people at the Education Dept are being economical with the truth to put it diplomatically. Allocations are done right up to August so nobody knows whether that year group is full yet for the start of the academic year. If you are looking at a late admission then I can see what they are saying. Wouldn't you better off asking for a week's trial at different schools as you are not sure whether you will be moving back anyway.
I have done a whole heap of research on this subject and have found the Ed Department, helpful as they are, to be a little bit lacking in their knowledge of the system so I really wouldn't take everything you hear as gospel.
There are new Codes of Admission/Appeals that have/are coming out. One came out on 17th January and the other is coming into force on the 28th Feb. Why don't you download the booklets from your potential council's website and read through them.
Regarding your comments on the system being easy for admission in Oz, I can only speak for Perth but it is not as easy as people may think. My daughter was refused a place at the one and only school in the suburb where I live. I had no idea I could appeal and ended up ringing 15 other schools to see if one would take my daughter. 12 were state schools who refused her a place because she was out of catchment and 3 were private who said they were full up and the waiting lists at 2 of them were closed.
Th school where my daughter was a refused a place is now telling applicants they "can offer a seat in a class but not an education" That is the principal's mantra.
Eventually I found a lovely little school who would take her but she had to go in a composite class which has done her no favours whatsoever and although she is happy there she is bored having been put down 2 years from UK level because of her birthdate. It might be easier in NSW but in Perth that has not been the case for us.
The bottom line is more schools need to built everywhere. The infrastructure is not keeping up with the population growth but thats another thread
I think someone said that school governers control the appeals system but if that was the case it has now changed under the new Appeals Code. As I read it anybody who cannot make an impartial decision is not allowed to be on the Appeals Panel.
Eventually my son got a place in private 20 mins drive which was nice, but they did not have a place for my daughter and she could only get a place 10 mins drive from our house at a state school, and another 30 mins drive to my sons school, pick ups and drop offs were a nightmare. My daughter hated her school, they all swore even the teacher said the 'f' word, eventually my daughter got a place at the private school where my son was. Lovely!!!!!!
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). However no places for my son in his old school, where all his friends are, its a nightmare!!!!
Jan 22nd 2008, 2:32 pm
#669
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney (previously Brum)
Posts: 1,095
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Thanks Tracey....very helpful, or should I say "ta, our kid"....oooh, came over all Brummy then.
I shall do a bit more research.
Met an Aussie who's been in Warwick & Leamington for past 7 years and she's just back because of the schools. Interestingly, she said she didn't make many friends there because everyone kept to themselves and they weren't into the pub thing. Mind you, she also said that she 'didn't get' English humour, which would kind of set you back a bit socially.
It was just interesting to hear from someone who did exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons, but in completely opposite directions!
She did say the schools in UK were dreadful and that was the main reason for returning.
I shall do a bit more research.
Met an Aussie who's been in Warwick & Leamington for past 7 years and she's just back because of the schools. Interestingly, she said she didn't make many friends there because everyone kept to themselves and they weren't into the pub thing. Mind you, she also said that she 'didn't get' English humour, which would kind of set you back a bit socially.
It was just interesting to hear from someone who did exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons, but in completely opposite directions!
She did say the schools in UK were dreadful and that was the main reason for returning.
O.k, do you want to stay around the Midlands for starters? If so, here's a little list of areas I've lived in, very happily, and they have decent schools;
Bromsgrove; South Bromsgrove High has a good reputation and my niece came out with good 'A' level grades, Duke of Edinburgh etc,. If you live north Bromsgrove i.e Lickey area (gorgeous) then the kids would go to Waseley Hills high and that too has a good reputation.
Southam; This is just outside Leamington Spa and is a nice large village/small town. The high school there is good too, so I hear. The villages surrounding Southam are picturesque and you'd still pick up a 3 bed semi there for around the 180k GBP. We used to live in Bishops Itchington, so lovely........fab little pub that never closed
Brum is over populated and congested, always has been and it's only going to get worse over the years to come. You'd be wise to move away from it.
I know you're frustrated about the crowded schools and you keep comparing it to the Aussie system, but remember, there are 62 million peeps living in Blighty, there's 21 million in Aus so it's bound to be a little 'cosier'!!
Bromsgrove; South Bromsgrove High has a good reputation and my niece came out with good 'A' level grades, Duke of Edinburgh etc,. If you live north Bromsgrove i.e Lickey area (gorgeous) then the kids would go to Waseley Hills high and that too has a good reputation.
Southam; This is just outside Leamington Spa and is a nice large village/small town. The high school there is good too, so I hear. The villages surrounding Southam are picturesque and you'd still pick up a 3 bed semi there for around the 180k GBP. We used to live in Bishops Itchington, so lovely........fab little pub that never closed
Brum is over populated and congested, always has been and it's only going to get worse over the years to come. You'd be wise to move away from it.
I know you're frustrated about the crowded schools and you keep comparing it to the Aussie system, but remember, there are 62 million peeps living in Blighty, there's 21 million in Aus so it's bound to be a little 'cosier'!!
Jan 22nd 2008, 2:45 pm
#670
'In limboland'
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,880
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Thanks Tracey....very helpful, or should I say "ta, our kid"....oooh, came over all Brummy then.
Met an Aussie who's been in Warwick & Leamington for past 7 years and she's just back because of the schools. Interestingly, she said she didn't make many friends there because everyone kept to themselves and they weren't into the pub thing. Mind you, she also said that she 'didn't get' English humour, which would kind of set you back a bit socially.
It was just interesting to hear from someone who did exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons, but in completely opposite directions!
She did say the schools in UK were dreadful and that was the main reason for returning.
Met an Aussie who's been in Warwick & Leamington for past 7 years and she's just back because of the schools. Interestingly, she said she didn't make many friends there because everyone kept to themselves and they weren't into the pub thing. Mind you, she also said that she 'didn't get' English humour, which would kind of set you back a bit socially.
It was just interesting to hear from someone who did exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons, but in completely opposite directions!
She did say the schools in UK were dreadful and that was the main reason for returning.
Jan 22nd 2008, 3:04 pm
#671
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2007
Location: England
Posts: 4,231
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I guess there's always another side to the story...we loved the composites. It gave my kids the opportunity to do more advanced work and stopped them getting bored brainless.
This is high school we're talking about though. That system would work if there was just one particular school in an area which was popular and oversubscribed to, but if every school in the Northern area of Brum is full....madness!
I think the Aussie system is brilliant. Everyone knows where they stand. You go to your 'local' school and if you have a good reason not to, you can apply elsewhere, if you don't have a good reason for not going there, then you can go private!
The only good thing about the conversations on the phone last night to schools/LEA was that I got to talk to some really lovely, friendly Poms...just a pity they had such bad news for me!
This is high school we're talking about though. That system would work if there was just one particular school in an area which was popular and oversubscribed to, but if every school in the Northern area of Brum is full....madness!
I think the Aussie system is brilliant. Everyone knows where they stand. You go to your 'local' school and if you have a good reason not to, you can apply elsewhere, if you don't have a good reason for not going there, then you can go private!
The only good thing about the conversations on the phone last night to schools/LEA was that I got to talk to some really lovely, friendly Poms...just a pity they had such bad news for me!
Jan 22nd 2008, 8:08 pm
#672
Galaxy 1: Cadbury's 0
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,606
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
If you like the school that is 20kms away, is the distance really an inhibitor? I know it's not ideal, but children of high school age can travel independently and many many children travel this distance every day to go to school. I have two neighbours both in year 7 (age 11/12) that leave the house at 7.15 to catch the bus/train for (different) schools.
Personally, I think the distance is more of an issue for their out of school socialising in the evenings and weekends due to the spread of their friends, than the distance to travel to actually go to school. Picking them up from the pub/party will be somewhat arduous. Then again, some parents don't do this and this may be looking too far ahead.
I believe things usually work out okay, although we may not always be aware of it.
Jan 23rd 2008, 1:25 am
#673
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Joined: Dec 2005
Location: uk-perth northern suburbs-uk
Posts: 740
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
[QUOTE=gsxrmad;5826193]
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). QUOTE]
I emailed the head of our old kids school to get them back in when we came back. She went to the second hand clothes shop in the school and got them completely kitted out as a "welcome back" gift and meant a) I didnt have to fork out again when I couldnt afford it and B) kids looked the same as everyone else when they started back.
It truely was one of the many wonderful gestures Ive received since coming back
Both of my childrens schools are fantastic state schools with a cirriculum and out-of-school activies that are far more varied and surpass anything I personally experienced abroad.
Yes, community's great!
C
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). QUOTE]
I emailed the head of our old kids school to get them back in when we came back. She went to the second hand clothes shop in the school and got them completely kitted out as a "welcome back" gift and meant a) I didnt have to fork out again when I couldnt afford it and B) kids looked the same as everyone else when they started back.
It truely was one of the many wonderful gestures Ive received since coming back
Both of my childrens schools are fantastic state schools with a cirriculum and out-of-school activies that are far more varied and surpass anything I personally experienced abroad.
Yes, community's great!
C
Jan 23rd 2008, 1:42 am
#674
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: No more bloody flies.
Posts: 1,084
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
[QUOTE=chance to be;5828385]
That is one brilliant headmaster, I belive all schoolkids should wear uniforms as without them it causes so much trouble with the kids and bullying.
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). QUOTE]
I emailed the head of our old kids school to get them back in when we came back. She went to the second hand clothes shop in the school and got them completely kitted out as a "welcome back" gift and meant a) I didnt have to fork out again when I couldnt afford it and B) kids looked the same as everyone else when they started back.
It truely was one of the many wonderful gestures Ive received since coming back
Both of my childrens schools are fantastic state schools with a cirriculum and out-of-school activies that are far more varied and surpass anything I personally experienced abroad.
Yes, community's great!
C
I emailed the head of our old kids school to get them back in when we came back. She went to the second hand clothes shop in the school and got them completely kitted out as a "welcome back" gift and meant a) I didnt have to fork out again when I couldnt afford it and B) kids looked the same as everyone else when they started back.
It truely was one of the many wonderful gestures Ive received since coming back
Both of my childrens schools are fantastic state schools with a cirriculum and out-of-school activies that are far more varied and surpass anything I personally experienced abroad.
Yes, community's great!
C
Jan 23rd 2008, 7:20 am
#675
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney (previously Brum)
Posts: 1,095
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
That's fantastic....where have you moved back to in the UK? That really must have cemented the feeling that moving back was the right decision.
[quote=chance to be;5828385][quote=gsxrmad;5826193]
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). QUOTE]
[quote=chance to be;5828385][quote=gsxrmad;5826193]
However, we have decided to go back to the UK, my daughter can get into her old school no problems, the head master there is fab and has emailed us while in oz!!! (that lovely community feel we miss). QUOTE]