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Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Old Aug 31st 2021, 8:57 am
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Maybe a tad off-topic, but even Singapore is starting to question the benefits of xenophobia:
Covid threatens Singapore's business hub crown
On Sunday evening, the country's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong highlighted these issues in his National Day speech."We must not turn our backs on them, and give the impression that Singapore is becoming xenophobic and hostile to foreigners," he said.

"It would gravely damage our reputation as an international hub. It would cost us investments, jobs and opportunities."

Despite these promises of inclusivity however, some foreigners have felt the impact of the country's shifting policies.

Like other governments in the region, Singapore has at times during the pandemic had different border rules for its citizens and foreign residents.

There have also been differences in vaccine eligibility, while companies have come under pressure to hire more locals, with foreign-worker quotas for certain industries changed in recent years.

This will continue, according to Prime Minister Lee, who said Singapore will tighten the criteria for foreign working visas "gradually and progressively" to tackle companies overseas that sometimes hire based on "familiar links and old boys' networks, rather than on merit".

There is already some evidence to suggest that these policies are having an impact on the number of foreign workers in Singapore.

Annual figures from the country's Ministry of Manpower shows the total number of workers from overseas declined by almost 14% in the year to December 2020.

And it's not an insignificant number. Even after that decline, there are still more than 1.2m overseas workers, or about a third of Singapore's total workforce.

Federico Donato, President of the European Chamber of Commerce, said parts of this workforce are vital for Singapore's development:

"Allow me to borrow an example from soccer. If you play in the Champions League, you need to have the best talent, you want to have Ronaldo, Bonucci and Messi to compete at the top level.

"If you want to be a top banking centre, you want to be a global tech hub, you cannot do it without an influx of people - especially if you are a country with just five million people."
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 4:28 am
  #122  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Good news!
Government Agrees to Reconsider Its Announced MM2H Changes
Following three weeks of outcry over the restrictive new changes to the programme, the Malaysian government will once again review MM2H.

According to Home Minister Datuk Seri Hamzah Zainudin, the government plans now to re-examine the announced changes to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme, which were publicised on August 11 to fierce pushback. Two days ago, the Sultan of Johor added his own criticism, calling the new requirements both overly restrictive and damaging to the country.

The loudest outcry came in response to Malaysia announcing it would even impose the onerous new criteria on existing MM2H pass holders, a move that would force nearly all of them to leave the country, consequently causing significant damage to the residential property market as billions of ringgit in real estate was unloaded onto a market already experiencing a glut of unsold homes.

Critics have also suggested that the changes would signal to international investors that foreigners were unwelcome in Malaysia, damaging the country’s reputation and negatively impacting foreign investment.

MM2H Consultants Association president Anthony Liew expressed his relief at the government’s willingness to conduct a review.

“The MM2H programme impacts several sectors of the economy such as property developers, banks, retailers, tourism, and education,” Liew said. “As such, we hope the ministry will engage not only us, but also the other relevant stakeholders so that we can provide our input.”

Malaysia Tourism Council (MTC) president Uzaidi Udanis said about 150 representatives from affected sectors held a virtual meeting last Friday regarding the new conditions, which are meant to go into effect in October.

He urged the ministry to consider introducing more “agile regulations,” especially during the pandemic recovery period. “The government does not need to accept all our proposals, but just to have a look at them and make the necessary adjustment,” Uzaidi urged.
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 4:43 am
  #123  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Here's the Star article on the MM2H review
Fingers crossed
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nati...-mm2h-criteria
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 9:09 am
  #124  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

And the chief architect comments:
Hamzah: MM2H participants must be of quality and contribute to economy
The Home Minister said according to the Immigration records, the number of participants who do not reside in Malaysia was between 7,000 and 8,000."They will only come in for a short period to register their application and when they want to renew their passes later.

"I have asked officers to call up these participants to find out their intention of taking up the offer as they don't even stay in Malaysia," he told a press conference on Wednesday (Sept 1).

As of July 31, there are 57,478 foreigners who are holders of the MM2H passes, of which 28,249 are principals while the rest are their dependents.

Hamzah said since the movement control order was enforced last year until Aug 31, Immigration authorities had received 13,873 applications for the programme with 4,714 of them given approval.

On complaints that the new policy imposed by the government was too restrictive, he said the government needed to ensure participants of MM2H “are of quality and can help generate income and spur the economy”.

“If the participants are young and their income is just between RM1,000 and RM3,000, they benefit more by living in Malaysia and contribute only a little to the economy. That is why we had to relook into the policy,” he said.

The minister said the condition on offshore income for MM2H participants remained the same for almost 20 years from 2002 until changes were made recently.

“For those who have truly made Malaysia their second home, we will look at how they can continue to live here,” he said.
Anything slightly illogical there? I'll let you decide for yourselves....

Last edited by Epicurious; Sep 1st 2021 at 9:35 am.
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 11:10 am
  #125  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Hmmmm.... So this new revelation appears out of the blue by the Home Minister. Certainly good news if they Grandfather in the current MM2H's. But, has the damage already been done. I know a couple people on the other side of the world who will be waking up in a few hours, and they will either take this as good (better) news, or... will they will just pass it off as too little too late.
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 11:33 am
  #126  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

A quote from another newspaper article about the same topic:
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...-mm2h-holders/
“For example, for those who have stayed in the country for more than 10 years, we will look for ways to continue allowing them to reside here. If possible, those who stay here should be of quality and are capable of helping us economically.”
More than 10 years implies that one must already have renewed his/her MM2H at least once. I'm on my first MM2H visa, and not yet 10 years living here. Seeing his comment, this could mean bad news for me.
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 12:13 pm
  #127  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by Epicurious View Post
And the chief architect comments:
Hamzah: MM2H participants must be of quality and contribute to economy


Anything slightly illogical there? I'll let you decide for yourselves....
Surely the Rm 1,000 to RM 3,000 must be a typo? If they mean RM 10k to RM 30k, then I wonder how that would not be benefitting the economy.
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Old Sep 1st 2021, 12:14 pm
  #128  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
A quote from another newspaper article about the same topic:
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...-mm2h-holders/
More than 10 years implies that one must already have renewed his/her MM2H at least once. I'm on my first MM2H visa, and not yet 10 years living here. Seeing his comment, this could mean bad news for me.
Same here.
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Old Sep 2nd 2021, 7:25 am
  #129  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Further developments:
Some leeway for MM2H
PUTRAJAYA: Existing Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) participants may be exempted from some of the programme’s new conditions as slight leeway might be given to those who have truly been making this country their home, says the Home Minister.Datuk Seri Hamzah Zainudin said this, however, would be on a case-by-case basis as the aim was to ensure MM2H participants were “of quality” and could help generate revenue for the economy.

He said active participants of the programme who are of a certain age, had resided here for a number of years, possess a certain level of income and had made significant investments here might enjoy a certain degree of relaxation of the conditions.

Those submitting fresh applications would still have to comply with the new and stricter conditions recently set by the ministry, he stressed.

“I think it is only fair to give some leeway to those who have been staying here for years and have contributed significantly to the economy so that they can continue to stay in Malaysia.

For new applications, the latest conditions must be met,” he told reporters yesterday on his first day back as Home Minister.
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Old Sep 2nd 2021, 10:52 am
  #130  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by physdude View Post
Surely the Rm 1,000 to RM 3,000 must be a typo? If they mean RM 10k to RM 30k, then I wonder how that would not be benefitting the economy.
The Minimum to qualify under the old program was for those under 50 years of age... RM10,000/month in addition to the FD RM300K AND Proof of Liquid Assets of RM500K. All of this must be derived from offshore sources. None internal...so the monthly income and FD is flowing into the Malaysian economy. The MM2H holder cannot work, and investing is now highly constrained.

The Minister tries to suggest that someone at age 30 would not be contributing, but the government allowed them in under the same terms as 45 year olds. I see no economic difference if they are not working in Malaysia. And 10K a month is certainly at or near the Top 20%ile of Malaysian earners. In a State like Sarawak or Sabah it's probably in the top 10%.

See here that the folks in Putrajaya are living in a bubble. The think that everyone is as wealthy or wealthier than them and that wealth = "quality". He never retreats from his view on that matter. He suggests that perhaps he'll consider making some provisions for SOME that are already in the program. What that is remains to be seen. Perhaps those that own homes will be considered "quality" enough (though renting a condo probably generates more income to the economy than buying a condo that can be resold at the same or higher price).


https://www.theedgemarkets.com/artic...-scant-meaning

But in a new twist the Minister began attacking those already on MM2H, particularly those that are not resident. Supposedly there are 7000 (or 8000, depending on the source) of these scofflaws that have obtained an MM2H paid the RM150- RM300,000 into a FD...and haven't stayed. I'm not sure of what crimes that these individuals might be perpetrating on Malaysia from long distance (other than just working, or going to school). Living in Malaysia was NOT part of the requirements of the visa...living elsewhere was not restricted. But it seems to me that more mundane explanations might be likely if he had actually asked those who were doing this...indeed it might even be in their explanations as to why they applied to MM2H.

One possibility is that these are dependents and not the principal...and while the fees are paid and they are on the visa they just haven't bothered to come to Malaysia. Or they came, and got registered as a tourist. Kids going to school abroad and especially elderly parents might simply not use their visa privilege. The see their parents when the parent returns from Malaysia. Alternatively it may be the that the principal is still working abroad but the dependents are going to school locally supervised by the spouse or grandparents. In any case to say these individuals aren't contributing...they have certainly placed the FD (which is used by the banks as liquidity to tender loans to locals) and perhaps bought property.

But to even raise this issue...which wasn't even mentioned in the press conference, seems to indicate the Minister is "investigating" the current visa holders and trying quite hard to find fault with them so his claim of them being "not quality" will stick. It also suggests that deportation may be a real possibility. One provision of the new regulations was the right of the Home Office to make REGULAR inspections of recipients paces of residence to check for compliance of the law and visa requirements...no warrant needed. The presumption is guilty until proven innocent.

I sadly see little in the Ministers words to suggest much change under this government UNTIL they actually see and feel the financial fallout of their policies. I hope I'm wrong and there is a complete U-Turn and also a revision of the policies for new applicants. Although I live in Sarawak under the different program and where xenophobia and racism is less than in West Malaysia it's gotten me concerned enough to look into where I might go if the winds start blowing EAST.
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Old Sep 2nd 2021, 11:44 am
  #131  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
The Minimum to qualify under the old program was for those under 50 years of age... RM10,000/month in addition to the FD RM300K AND Proof of Liquid Assets of RM500K. All of this must be derived from offshore sources. None internal...so the monthly income and FD is flowing into the Malaysian economy. The MM2H holder cannot work, and investing is now highly constrained.

The Minister tries to suggest that someone at age 30 would not be contributing, but the government allowed them in under the same terms as 45 year olds. I see no economic difference if they are not working in Malaysia. And 10K a month is certainly at or near the Top 20%ile of Malaysian earners. In a State like Sarawak or Sabah it's probably in the top 10%.

See here that the folks in Putrajaya are living in a bubble. The think that everyone is as wealthy or wealthier than them and that wealth = "quality". He never retreats from his view on that matter. He suggests that perhaps he'll consider making some provisions for SOME that are already in the program. What that is remains to be seen. Perhaps those that own homes will be considered "quality" enough (though renting a condo probably generates more income to the economy than buying a condo that can be resold at the same or higher price).


https://www.theedgemarkets.com/artic...-scant-meaning

But in a new twist the Minister began attacking those already on MM2H, particularly those that are not resident. Supposedly there are 7000 (or 8000, depending on the source) of these scofflaws that have obtained an MM2H paid the RM150- RM300,000 into a FD...and haven't stayed. I'm not sure of what crimes that these individuals might be perpetrating on Malaysia from long distance (other than just working, or going to school). Living in Malaysia was NOT part of the requirements of the visa...living elsewhere was not restricted. But it seems to me that more mundane explanations might be likely if he had actually asked those who were doing this...indeed it might even be in their explanations as to why they applied to MM2H.

One possibility is that these are dependents and not the principal...and while the fees are paid and they are on the visa they just haven't bothered to come to Malaysia. Or they came, and got registered as a tourist. Kids going to school abroad and especially elderly parents might simply not use their visa privilege. The see their parents when the parent returns from Malaysia. Alternatively it may be the that the principal is still working abroad but the dependents are going to school locally supervised by the spouse or grandparents. In any case to say these individuals aren't contributing...they have certainly placed the FD (which is used by the banks as liquidity to tender loans to locals) and perhaps bought property.

But to even raise this issue...which wasn't even mentioned in the press conference, seems to indicate the Minister is "investigating" the current visa holders and trying quite hard to find fault with them so his claim of them being "not quality" will stick. It also suggests that deportation may be a real possibility. One provision of the new regulations was the right of the Home Office to make REGULAR inspections of recipients paces of residence to check for compliance of the law and visa requirements...no warrant needed. The presumption is guilty until proven innocent.

I sadly see little in the Ministers words to suggest much change under this government UNTIL they actually see and feel the financial fallout of their policies. I hope I'm wrong and there is a complete U-Turn and also a revision of the policies for new applicants. Although I live in Sarawak under the different program and where xenophobia and racism is less than in West Malaysia it's gotten me concerned enough to look into where I might go if the winds start blowing EAST.
I am already in the program so I do know those requirements which is why the quote of RM 1,000 to RM 3,000 was so bizarre to me. I got into the program when I was still working but only moved here a little over a year after that (I would have easily satisfied the new income requirement while working but definitely cannot now). So, some the more recent applicants could still just be in the process of planning their move as well, especially with all the covid restrictions. As you said, a lot of dependents might have just been included for convenience and just used it for visits. I am honestly surprised that the number who are not actually residing here is as low as 7-8k. I know at least one with his family who used to stay here regularly at first and moved back to UK/Pakistan where he has residences and comes back occasionally to meet friends (he renewed recently so is lucky).

If you go into the cesspool that is lowyat forums and look into the discussions regarding this topic, you have some people automatically assuming that they must be money launderers etc. while there are other saner people who see the problems that this is going to cause. Why you would launder money in Malaysia is a big mystery to me - there are far easier places in the world and it wouldn't make sense to go through all the hassles of verifications etc to get the MM2H if that was your objective.

I think the fallout could extend just beyond MM2H. There was a Japanese businessman on Twitter stating that he and his other business owner friends might fire Malaysian workers, stop their business dealings in Malaysia, not holiday in Malaysia etc. as retaliation and there is also the more mundane loss of confidence that this should cause in any foreign investor, especially property investors. They are already having capital outflows and this will make it worse. I kept a lot of FDs beyond the 300k for the next few years of expenses and as a safety cushion but the MYR, which I thought was a bit undervalued, has suddenly become less attractive and it is probably best to move the money elsewhere. I lost any trust in investing in any property here after Mahathir's comment about not allowing Forest City buyers to live here. It almost looks like the govt does not care about the economy at all - the cabotage issue is just another illustration.
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Old Sep 2nd 2021, 4:11 pm
  #132  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

An interesting podcast interview regarding the updated requirements - https://www.bfm.my/podcast/evening-e...fO3AeQ.twitter
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Old Sep 3rd 2021, 8:14 am
  #133  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Hannah Yeoh warns of mass exodus of MM2H participants with new rules, calls for a review
The government could drive away much needed foreign investment and the expatriate community that has made Malaysia home with its new rules for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme, DAP’s Hannah Yeoh predicted today.The Segambut MP said the new stringent rules could not be met by the majority of MM2H participants, and could lead to a “mass exodus” which would hurt the local economy across several sectors.

“According to the latest survey published by ExpatGo - Local Insight. Global Perspective., 79 per cent of existing MM2H participants do not meet the new income requirement.

“Of those who do meet the income requirement, 89 per cent cannot meet the fixed deposit requirement and 90 per cent of participants say their views of Malaysia are now somewhat worse.

“The stringent criteria and unattractive requirements will inevitably lead to a mass exodus of MM2H participants,” she said in a statement.

Yeoh added that the unilateral announcement from the government would significantly hurt the local housing market, private education sector, tourism, and spending patterns in the local communities.
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Old Sep 3rd 2021, 6:08 pm
  #134  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by GreenState View Post
The current government is broke, and it wants to milk the foreigners.
GO WHERE YOU ARE TREATED THE BEST.
We were in Thailand until the pandemic hit. went to Europe because of a medical issue. Got "locked-in" in one country as we couldn't leave in time. Then got locked out of Thailand. Ret. visa & Elite visa holders were a long way down the line to be allowed back. In the meantime visa types & conditions changed. Price for Elite visa went up too. It is still difficult to enter Thailand. Possible yes.
Due to high infection rate in Thailand we are still in Europe. We will return whatever happens. For how long we don't know considering the very frequent anti govt. demos which have turned more and more violent.
Would love to hear which country treats foreigners/retirees "the best". Not in EU.
Thais smile a lot. Do they want us? No.
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Old Sep 4th 2021, 7:02 am
  #135  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Home minister: “If the participants are young and their income is just between RM1,000 and RM3,000 ...."
This ignorant guy is pulling random numbers out of his a$$.
He doesn't even know the real requirements for offshore income (or pension) is at least RM10,000.
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