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Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Old Sep 25th 2021, 7:40 am
  #181  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by StillSearching View Post
Yes, air quality in KK is much better so far than in many other parts of Malaysia. Kudat in Sabah would be even much better, but it is too far from everything. We lived not in a very busy area in KK and vehicle exhaust smell is significant. We then moved to a suburban area 35 min north from the city.
Urban planning in KK is horrible. The city is not designed for pedestrians or to handle growing traffic. Buildings are built tightly, without green zones in between. Concrete is practically covering 90% of the land and it is why it is significantly hotter there and where we live now.
The thing other than Beijing 2010 it is really quite easy to avoid living in a polluted area in Malaysia. There are so many options even in Klang Valley to be on the clean side. Yes, I also stayed a couple of month in KL air quality disaster area, and yes, I even remember the old Pudu bus station, 20 years before maybe the worst place one could imagine. But when buying our condo I looked especially on the pollution factor and cannot complain at all.
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Old Sep 25th 2021, 9:35 am
  #182  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Johor Sultan meets PM over MM2H conditions
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/cat...2h-conditions/

Johor Ruler Sultan Ibrahim Sultan Iskandar said he met the prime minister today over the tighter conditions announced recently for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme.

In a Facebook post, Sultan Ibrahim said he called for an immediate review of the recent conditions imposed under the programme.

He said Johor remained one of the main destinations for foreign investors, adding that the state is also one of the main contributors to the country’s economic growth.

“The MM2H programme is one of the main contributors to the state,” Sultan Ibrahim added.

Let's hope something positive comes out of this.

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Old Sep 26th 2021, 6:41 am
  #183  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by eCdD View Post
The thing other than Beijing 2010 it is really quite easy to avoid living in a polluted area in Malaysia. There are so many options even in Klang Valley to be on the clean side. Yes, I also stayed a couple of month in KL air quality disaster area, and yes, I even remember the old Pudu bus station, 20 years before maybe the worst place one could imagine. But when buying our condo I looked especially on the pollution factor and cannot complain at all.
We've been living on the 26th floor in a condo north of KL with a view of Petronas Twin Towers for a year. I could see a heavy gray blanket covering the whole KL when the wind blows from the ocean. There are no "good air" zones in KL. The only time when KL gets good quality air and blue sky is when the air blows from the mountains towards the ocean.
I kept all the windows shut when the air blows from the ocean and still my husband got asthma and I got topic dermatitis because of the air pollution. No asthma or skin problem in KK.
You can check AQ online at AQICN.org.

Last edited by StillSearching; Sep 26th 2021 at 6:49 am.
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Old Sep 29th 2021, 8:10 am
  #184  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Over half of MM2H participants who left without returning are from China
A total of 1,822 Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme participants left the country between 2015 and 2019 without coming back.Participants from China made up the largest proportion with 920 who never returned to Malaysia, followed by Japan (214), South Korea (201) and Bangladesh (134).

This was revealed in the Auditor-General's Report 2019 Series 2 which highlighted the lack of proper monitoring mechanisms in...
Remainder of article is paywalled, but the comments are worth a read.
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Old Sep 30th 2021, 10:46 am
  #185  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

One needs more information to fully understand what this means except that there is a counteracting factor to those that are receiving MM2H visas. I assume that these are recipients of visas that left and didn't renew (otherwise how can they say "without coming back").

Let's be clear on what this is...It's simply people who have opted NOT to RENEW their MM2H visa. It includes Principles and Dependents.

Let's give some possibles.
1) Fed up with Malaysia for some reason...racism, failure to assimilate, politics, food or that of a family member not adjusting.
2) Homesickness.
3) Family issues back home...returned. Visa expired.
4) They were dependents...elderly wanted to return home to hospice treatment or to die.
5) They were dependents...children on the visa "aged out" went to work or University outside Malaysia.
6) Decided to return to working life...requiring leaving and dopping from the program and re-entering on an Employment Visa.
7) Never really intended to live here...given the visa as part of a home purchase package. [This to me is the only questionable one on the list as the "deal" might mean getting a home below the standard Non-MM2H cap. This would be a loophole that likely should be eliminated...but given that te floors for many states were already lowered to MM2H levels in 2019 to alleviate overhang this seems to be a non-issue now.]
8) Better pastures...Other regional "retirement" or "investment schemes.
9) Immigration hassles...new rules being imposed on old "Silver Hair" recipients or people no longer qualifying even under the old terms at renewal (e.g.income no longer meeting the qualifying standard- no pension; needed to withdraw the Fixed Deposit). Immigration not allowing dependents to enter. Or not allowing the Part-Time Work benefit...as suggestively offered as "bait" by the MM2H program.

I'm wondering if this is "normal attrition". That the program should not just be "blowing it's horn" the numbers coming in but also scrutinize those leaving. Some of these may indeed have provided revenue to Malaysia for that time and can be viewed more as "long-term tourists". The children certainly contributed tuition to local schools.

But at least this provides a number from which people down the road can use to establish the LOSS of those in the MM2H program as a result of the 2021 Decision by Home Minister Hamzah. Any losses above this number in terms of Non-Remewals can be directly placed on his platter...in addition to any declines in aplications and acceptances.
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Old Oct 5th 2021, 11:41 pm
  #186  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

An article today gives first news of some back-tracking: https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...-mm2h-holders/
If this stands, then I take it to mean that, as an existing participant in the MM2H programme, I will be able to extend my visa when I get a new passport... i.e. I will be able to pay for the remainder of the 10 year period... albeit at a rate of RM500/year instead of the former 90/year. I hope this ammendment remains in place so that I might be able to somewhat plan what remains of my future; but time will tell.

Last edited by satumadu; Oct 6th 2021 at 12:02 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 1:02 am
  #187  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Thank you for an update! It looks like new rules will not apply to current applicants, but the article doesn't say if old rules can be grandfathered when it comes to MM2H renewal after 10 years.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 1:29 am
  #188  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Raises so many questions...Just a few
Is the 90 day requirement immediately retrospective. (At renewal do you need to show 90 days every year for the last ten. Many people got the visa a year or two before coming to Malaysia for extended periods.)
Does the 90 days only apply to the visa holder and not the dependent spouse
Is the renewal only five years
Will it still require personal attendance at immigration for renewal
What happens with the dependent spouse. when the visa holder dies
If your visa expired during covid is that still a renewal.
If you have expended money on a car etc and have a lower FD will you have to top it up to 150.

Here's the Star report...

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nati...lders#cxrecs_s
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 2:41 am
  #189  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by carbolic View Post
Raises so many questions...Just a few
Is the 90 day requirement immediately retrospective. (At renewal do you need to show 90 days every year for the last ten. Many people got the visa a year or two before coming to Malaysia for extended periods.)
Does the 90 days only apply to the visa holder and not the dependent spouse
Is the renewal only five years
Will it still require personal attendance at immigration for renewal
What happens with the dependent spouse. when the visa holder dies
If your visa expired during covid is that still a renewal.
If you have expended money on a car etc and have a lower FD will you have to top it up to 150.
Obviously until we see the policy in writing it's all very unclear. Even when it is written down there will likely be gaps.
My suspicion is that the 90 Day policy will not apply to preceding years, but MAY be required henceforth. Alternatively it may only apply from the point of receiving a renewal (Point 16). Otherwise they could also apply the visa fee for previous years, too. The way the Home Minister explained the 90-Day rule in a previous discussion is that it applies as a UNIT for the principal and the dependents. If any member spends 90 Days in Malaysia that covers the whole group. If the principal and spouse each spend 45 Days in Malaysia then that counts as 90 Days, and if you are a principal, spouse with 4 children and each spends 15 Days then one would accumulate the necessary 90 Days. That was what was given under the new set of conditions. Also will the Residency only apply to those 35-49? That's what the original proposal stated.Those over 50 were exempt.

They issue of whether the provisions under the old visa will be extended at renewal - 10 Years, No Processing Fee still unclear.

A lot of the items you raise are things that have hung over the MM2H for years (issue of spouse inheriting the status as a principal, especially if the widow/widower is not benefiting from salary/pension to meet the standard). They've never resolved that for two decades.

The fact is that all the provisions will apply to new applicants. That means that the MM2H program is effectively dead for Malaysia as no one new will come in. It will only be a diminishing pool of those who arrived at a twenty-five year "soft spot" when the government realised that encouraging long-stay visitors who contributed to the economy was a sound economic policy and fit it with the image of a Multi-Racial Nation with communities living in Harmony. That's shifting to one where the Malay community is dominant and that other groups are merely here at their courtesy and charity and provided that they SERVE the interests of a Malay-ascendent Malaysia. They are only tolerated.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 4:54 am
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
...a sound economic policy and fit it with the image of a Multi-Racial Nation with communities living in Harmony. That's shifting to one where the Malay community is dominant and that other groups are merely here at their courtesy and charity and provided that they SERVE the interests of a Malay-ascendent Malaysia. They are only tolerated.
Do you mean here "Muslim", not Malay?


Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
A lot of the items you raise are things that have hung over the MM2H for years (issue of spouse inheriting the status as a principal, especially if the widow/widower is not benefiting from salary/pension to meet the standard). They've never resolved that for two decades.
This is a huge problem. If Malaysia is your only home and you already even bought a property here then if a principal MM2H holder dies, your spouse needs to get out of here within 3 months. How comfortable are you to put roots here? If you are a couple it is wiser to always think of this place as a temporary location for yourself.
However, when you get older and sicker it is much harder to relocate internationally and adjust to a new place. I guess it is wise to find a country which grants you a PR or a citizenship or move to your home country forgetting why you moved from there at the first place.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 5:58 am
  #191  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Under the old system it was quite clear... a surviving spouse had to do a fresh application.
I know of at least two people who did it. (Sure if you didn't tell them the survivor could have stayed around until the ten years expired.)
The problem now is that the survivor's application will probably need to be done on the new terms.
It won't work and merely creates anguish and uncertainty.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 6:46 am
  #192  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

I recall that the MOTAC MM2H site announced a requirement that surviving spouses had (I recall) 1 month to notify the MM2H desk of the death. I don't recall if this was to allow the transfer of the visa to the spouse. Those announcements are no longer accessible on the MOTAC website...announcements only go back about a year.

The big problem for the surviving spouse might be that they have to show both the FD AND income/pension. The FD might be depleted...but if they can transfer they could use the remaining amount to meet that "test". The problem might be the income/pension. "test". I'd suggest any WILL have a provision of paying out the requisite MM2H income amount (RM2500) monthly from a trust. That would be proof of sufficient income under the OLD TERMS. If they force one into the new requirements all bets off.

Sarawak MM2H allows EITHER Proof of Income/ OR FD. Might be good to transfer to the Sarawak MM2H program.

Concern here (Sarawak) is whether they will require the Increase in the visa fee or if it will stay at RM90/year.

One possibility of cutting the expenses is that dependents who aren't always coming in may simply use a 90-day tourist visa rather than be identified as dependents. Another tactic is to put the kids on student passes (saving RM450 vs. RM 90) and the spouse on a guardian visa. Ultimately they'll end up with people leaving the MM2H program and shifting to less expensive visas.


Last edited by RedApe; Oct 6th 2021 at 6:51 am.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by carbolic View Post
... a surviving spouse had to do a fresh application.
This wasn't an option even for some MM2Hers under the old system, because a surviving spouse didn't have enough income.
A Permanent Residence is a better option. Unfortunately, Malaysian gov doesn't care.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 7:28 am
  #194  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by satumadu View Post
An article today gives first news of some back-tracking: https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...-mm2h-holders/
If this stands, then I take it to mean that, as an existing participant in the MM2H programme, I will be able to extend my visa when I get a new passport... i.e. I will be able to pay for the remainder of the 10 year period... albeit at a rate of RM500/year instead of the former 90/year. I hope this ammendment remains in place so that I might be able to somewhat plan what remains of my future; but time will tell.
I fear that you are mixing up two things. Transferring your visa from an old (expired) passport to a new passport is not the same as renewing your MM2H visa. Your visa is valid for the period as stated in the approval letter, which is ten years. If, let's say, your passport expires after seven years you'll get the remaining three years in your new passport. Only once those three years have passed is your current visa coming to an end (i.e. expires) and you need to renew your MM2H visa.
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Old Oct 6th 2021, 1:12 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
I fear that you are mixing up two things. Transferring your visa from an old (expired) passport to a new passport is not the same as renewing your MM2H visa. Your visa is valid for the period as stated in the approval letter, which is ten years. If, let's say, your passport expires after seven years you'll get the remaining three years in your new passport. Only once those three years have passed is your current visa coming to an end (i.e. expires) and you need to renew your MM2H visa.
I fear that your fear is misplaced. I used the word "extend" because that is what MM2H calls it (extension) when one gets a new passport and pays for the remainder of the 10 year visa... not "transferring". I was not referring to "renewal", which is as you say an application for another 10 years.
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